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Large Pond Snail - What should I consider before putting it into my tank?

Started by Guest_Usil_* , May 12 2012 12:24 AM

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#1 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 12:24 AM

Sorry, I am starting this thread without a picture or ID. I was out on a large pond a few days ago near Ft Worth, Texas, puttering around with my RC boat when it got caught in some cat tails near shore. When I went to fish it out I saw these gigantic black snails in the cat tails and near the edge of the water. I did not capture any on this trip as I was trying not to get sucked under into the mud but I will this weekend and bring a few back and take some pictures.

I am hoping that someone will have an Id when I post them. I do not want to just plop them into my tank unless they represent little harm to the fish or plants. I would suppose that diseases might also be a concern but not sure how to address this as I think many use creek and pond snails in their native tanks.

If any have an idea what they might be I would be glad to hear. Also, what should I look out for before putting them into the tank?

Hope to post by Sunday.

Usil

Edited by Usil, 12 May 2012 - 12:24 AM.

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#2 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 11:08 AM

I would suppose that diseases might also be a concern but not sure how to address this as I think many use creek and pond snails in their native tanks.

If wewere in Africa I would talk about schistosomiasis. ( http://en.wikipedia....Schistosomiasis ) But here in the United States there aren't many disease causing parasites like that. There is giardia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giardia ) but that's kind of rare. Living in Ohio and North Carolina I've never heard of it being a problem. Maybe it's more of a big deal out West?

It is very easy to quarantine snails because they're so difficult to kill. I used a 10 gallon tank to keep snails for a while. It literally was just bare glass and some vegetables. My physa fontinalis pond snails don't need a filter or air stone or anything. Ammonia doesn't kill them, lack of oxygen doesn't kill them; they will breed as long as there is food. They're very easy to keep. Because physa fontinalis are egg layers, to quarantine them all you have to do is wait until they coat the walls with their egg cases, then drain the tank, remove all the snails, and fill the tank with fresh water.

It sounds like what you found is the livebearing trapdoor snails, but it's really hard to make an ID without a picture. If they are livebearing snails, they're a little bit trickier to quarantine but really, disease isn't that much of an issue here in the US like it is elsewhere in the world. Don't go petting the prairie dogs (they harbor bubonic plague) or dressing rabbits without gloves (they might have tularemia) but the fish are fairly safe-ish. And again, snails are very easy to quarantine if you want to do that.

Edited by EricaWieser, 12 May 2012 - 11:11 AM.

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#3 Guest_smilingfrog_*

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 11:15 AM

I probably wouldn't worry about disease, if you are concerned that they will eat your plants, you could keep them in a bucket for a few days with a few pieces of your plants in and see what happens.

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#4 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 11:26 AM

Here are pictures of the snails I have:

Physa:
http://img.photobuck...imiru/031-1.jpg
http://img.photobuck...21st2009003.jpg
http://img.photobuck...st2009008-1.jpg

Lymnaea:
My own photo: http://gallery.nanfa...arison.jpg.html
Better photos: http://mollusca-din....sca/Lymnaea.jpg
http://cache2.artpri...a-stagnalis.jpg

Ramshorn snails:
http://img.photobuck...kiimiru/065.jpg
http://img.photobuck...imiru/029-2.jpg

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#5 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 12:30 PM

"gigantic black" does sound like probably a livebearing trapdoor snail, either Bellamya (aka Cipangopaludina) japonica or B. chinensis. Both are invasive exotics. They are gill-breathers so they are not quite as tolerant of poor water quality as the pond and ramshorn snails Erica mentioned. I dont know whether they can harbor parasites (flukes, tapeworms, nematodes) that can infect your fish, but quarantine is not helpful against parasites that use multiple host species, since they can remain dormant in one host (snail) for years while waiting to be eaten by the next host (bird, fish, etc). They have spread rapidly in the past 10-20 years via Asian food markets and pond hobbyists. They can filter-feed in addition to grazing like other snails.

More info: http://nas.er.usgs.g...?SpeciesID=1046

The Japanese mystery snail is a host to Angiostrongylus cantonensis larvae in Taiwan, a species associated with eosinophilic meningitis (Lin and Chen 1980). It is also host to many other parasites in Asia, some of which may infect humans.

Means of Introduction: Imported to West Coast into Asian food market about 1892. Deliberate release to the Great Lakes where it was intentionally stocked as food for the channel catfish, Ictalurus punctatus in Lake Erie in the 1940s (Mills et al. 1993; Wolfert and Hiltunen 1968).

Impact of Introduction:
A) Realized: This species has been caught in very large numbers by fishermen in Sandusky Bay, Lake Erie; in fact, two tons have sometimes been caught in one seine haul (Wolfert and Hiltunen 1968). Fishermen in this region often consider it a nuisance (Wolfert and Hiltunen 1968).

B) Potential: In the Boston area, the Japanese mystery snail has been found to be a regular host to the common native parasite Aspidogaster conchicola, which is a first time record in North America for a gastropod acting as host to this species (Michelson 1970). Negative interactions with native gastropods are also possible.

Edited by gerald, 12 May 2012 - 12:40 PM.

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#6 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 05:06 PM

The black snails are about 1.5 to 2 inches in diameter. They don't look like those in your link. Will get back with pics as soon as possible.

Usil

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#7 Guest_smilingfrog_*

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:11 AM

The black snails are about 1.5 to 2 inches in diameter. They don't look like those in your link. Will get back with pics as soon as possible.

Usil

Try an internet search on apple snails, I don't know if you have them in Texas or not, but I would guess they are probably there.

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#8 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 09:39 AM

I did an internet search and these seem more like trap door snails. Size and color seem similar. Plus they are often sold for pond algae control. The pond I saw these in was in a park area near a running/walking trail. I am going out today to collect a few.

Usil

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#9 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:49 PM

Ok, went out this morning and tried to locate the big snail. Wouldn't you know there were none to be seen. I was about to give up for the morning and a 10 year old boy came down and asked what I was doing. I told him I was looking for those big snails that lived in the pond. He said, I just saw a couple back that way. I was tired so I told him I would give him a dollar if he brought me one. 2 minutes later I had my snail and the kid was happy too.

Here it is:

Posted Image

So is this a trap door?

Usil

Edited by Usil, 13 May 2012 - 01:07 PM.

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#10 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 02:35 PM

Looks like it. Check out these pictures: http://aqualandpetsp...s, Trapdoor.htm

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#11 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 05:19 PM

Thanks. Looks like the same. Although it says Iowa for the big ones. I have found big ones in Illinois in a small stream feeding the Missippi. These are in Texas.

Usil

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#12 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 05:27 PM

Thanks. Looks like the same. Although it says Iowa for the big ones. I have found big ones in Illinois in a small stream feeding the Missippi. These are in Texas.

Usil

The writer of the article is in Iowa, so they're by saying 'Iowa' they're probably saying 'around here'. Or 'in my backyard' or 'in my local pond'.

Edited by EricaWieser, 13 May 2012 - 05:29 PM.

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#13 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 08:27 PM

Interesting things happened after I put him into the tank. All the darters came over and congregated near the snail. The Mtn Red Belly Dace were frequently checking him out. The Siamese algae eaters came over and scoured the shell many times. He was in the tank for about 5 hours before he finally opened up and started crawling up the glass which he is doing now.

What's with the darters activity?

Also, how old do you think this snail is?

Usil

Edited by Usil, 13 May 2012 - 08:30 PM.

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#14 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 08:42 PM

What's with the darters activity?

The darters are curious, intelligent animals. They also lived in the wild in the past, where they probably hunted snails. If you don't have any food-sized snails for them to eat then what you saw might have been nostalgia on their part.

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#15 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 10:33 PM

Looks like the trapdoor snails I had in my tank last year (collected from a local residential reservoir). They didn't seem to cause any problems and I enjoyed seeing small BB-sized babies every now and then. The adults eventually died and the babies were doing well and growing until I tried a cutlips minnow as a part of my community. Almost entirely decimated every snail in my tank (though a few MTS are starting to appear again)

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#16 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:45 AM

Here he is out and about.

Posted Image

Usil

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#17 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:18 AM

If a slice of key-lime pie the size of a mattress showed up in your kitchen, wouldn't you go check it out?

The darters are curious, intelligent animals. They also lived in the wild in the past, where they probably hunted snails. If you don't have any food-sized snails for them to eat then what you saw might have been nostalgia on their part.