We recently collected many golden and black redhorse, several which had black lips. Both top and bottom lips were black, almost like they had black lipstick on, but it wouldn't wipe off.
It's the first time I've ever noticed it before. Anyone have any ideas what it might be or if its common?
golden redhorse with black lips?
Started by
Guest_bbrown_*
, Sep 28 2012 10:07 PM
10 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_Casper_*
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Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:21 AM
I just learned a couple weeks ago that i was looking at both Black and Golden Redhorse in the Conasauga. Ed Scott helped my eye. I have been seeing, tho somewhat rarely, the redfinned River Reds. I had been thinking the Goldens were younger, smaller Rivers but think i now perceive more clearly. Poison Ivy kept me from the last trip where my goal had been to spear one of each. But observing the bulkiness, large heads of the Goldens vs the sleekness of the Blacks is a help. But also behavior as Blacks stay on the move while the Goldens will settle to the bottom when disturbed ( which offers an easy shot ). River Reds are also more docile but the giants are too honorable and rare to take for the table, at least at the Conasauga.
Black Lipstick, and you did try to rub it off?
It would have to be in my hands! As also the lip ID using Olaf's lip chart.
So you noted this in OK? I need to look at range maps.
Have you ever eaten Redhorse Mr. Brown?
Ed cooked some redhorse patties a couple weekends ago that he canned back in 2000. Excellent table fare. The bones has dissolved to nothing but minerals.
Black Lipstick, and you did try to rub it off?
It would have to be in my hands! As also the lip ID using Olaf's lip chart.So you noted this in OK? I need to look at range maps.
Have you ever eaten Redhorse Mr. Brown?
Ed cooked some redhorse patties a couple weekends ago that he canned back in 2000. Excellent table fare. The bones has dissolved to nothing but minerals.
#3
Guest_bbrown_*
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:40 AM
The black won't rub off. I've attached photos of black and golden redhorse, some with black on lips (black lipstick), some without.
Has anyone ever seen this before or know what causes it?
The golden and blacks do look very similar. Having them side by side, helps somewhat. We look at the angle at the midpoint of the lower lip, thickness of the caudal peduncle and count scales. As you noted, after seeing a few, the longer and sleeker blacks start to stand out.
I've never eaten redhorse, but they are very commonly gigged and eaten in OK, during the winter months.
Has anyone ever seen this before or know what causes it?
The golden and blacks do look very similar. Having them side by side, helps somewhat. We look at the angle at the midpoint of the lower lip, thickness of the caudal peduncle and count scales. As you noted, after seeing a few, the longer and sleeker blacks start to stand out.
I've never eaten redhorse, but they are very commonly gigged and eaten in OK, during the winter months.
#6
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:28 AM
With a dissecting scope you should be able to see whether the black is due to melanophores, or Girl Scouts dumping their unsold chocolate cookies off a bridge. Maybe these suckers are producing melanin in their lips in response to something they're munching on, either a phyto-chemical or a contaminant maybe?
#7
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:35 AM
I know here is the south, I have seen catfish and other fish hang out under overhanging muscadine vines and eat the fruit that falls in teh water... these redhorse, look like they have been sucking black walnuts...???
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#9
Guest_UncleWillie_*
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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:38 PM
My last few years have been spent sampling suckers, and I've netted a lot of suckers (5600+), and I have never seen anything like that. Bbrown, do you mind if I show your pics to some folks next week? I'm headed to the Robust Redhorse Conservation Committee meeting on Monday, and can ask around if they have ever seen anything like this when sampling suckers.
Haha - I immediately thought about muscadines when I saw these pics, too, Michael! I like Gerald's suggestion to see if it is staining or actually pigmentation.
Haha - I immediately thought about muscadines when I saw these pics, too, Michael! I like Gerald's suggestion to see if it is staining or actually pigmentation.
#10
Guest_bbrown_*
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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:56 PM
Will - please pass the photos around. I wish I still had the fish which were collected in early Sept, but unfortunately do not. We did keep a few otoliths, by chance can any one read them? They're pretty small and I doubt that we can read them correctly with our equipment.
I would estimate that about half of the approximately 30 redhorse we sampled (both black and golden) had black lips, but were otherwise normal. If we sample that pop again, I'll be sure and save any with the markings.
Thanks for all the comments.
I would estimate that about half of the approximately 30 redhorse we sampled (both black and golden) had black lips, but were otherwise normal. If we sample that pop again, I'll be sure and save any with the markings.
Thanks for all the comments.
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