Need Help Planning Darter Tank

I'm in the very early stages of planning a darter tank. I'd like greenside, rainbow, fantail, iowa, least, johnny, orangethroat, or banded darters - depending on which I can find. I plan on creating the riffle habitat with a Fluval 405 canister filter and making some sort of spray bar that I can put at one side of the tank, and have the intake on the other end.

I have some pretty basic questions such as:

What size tank would be good for darters? I have a 40 gallon long (48Lx12Wx16H) already but was also considering a 20 long (30x12x12) or a 30 x-long (48x12x12) since I'm not sure how much height they would need. A lighter tank would be better so it doesn't put stress on our floor and the 40 is about maxing it out without needing supports.

Do I need to worry about male/female ratio? I am used to cichlids where you need one male to several or many females. If I have lots of males of the same type, will they fight?

Can all the the darter species I listed above live harmoneously in one aquarium, or will there be compatability problems?

Is it possible for any of them to hybridize?

How many darters at most should be stocked in each of the tank sizes (40L, 30XL, or 20L)?

What size tank would be good for darters? I have a 40 gallon long (48Lx12Wx16H) already but was also considering a 20 long (30x12x12) or a 30 x-long (48x12x12) since I'm not sure how much height they would need. A lighter tank would be better so it doesn't put stress on our floor and the 40 is about maxing it out without needing supports.

What kind of floor do you have?

I have found that floors are very strong. I am in a second floor apartment and have two 75 gallon aquariums. They are stacked one on top of another, so they have the same 4'x2' footprint. There have been no problems so far. I'm actually kinda surprised. But it makes sense once you think about it. Fridges and couches (especially with people on them) weigh a lot, and people aren't ever concerned about them falling through the floor.

Edited by EricaWieser, 05 February 2013 - 06:49 PM.

Do I need to worry about male/female ratio? I am used to cichlids where you need one male to several or many females. If I have lots of males of the same type, will they fight?

Is it possible for any of them to hybridize?

Nope and nope. You're not going to get any breeding unless you've got multiple tanks set up. Darters are relentless fry hunters. My orangethroat darters used to climb up into the plants to hunt down and devour every last swordtail fry in the tank. And livebearer fry are born much larger and more capable than egg layer fry, too.
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A lot of people think darters hate plants. They don't. Those pictures show that whatever ledges or plants you give them to climb on, they will. Especially if there are fry up there to hunt.

One of the simplest ways to breed them is to rotate the parents through various tanks. That way if they lay eggs, they're immediately removed from the tank and don't have a chance to eat the fry.

Edited by EricaWieser, 05 February 2013 - 06:56 PM.

Our house is wood floors and built in thd 1960s - I think as cheaply as possible. The place the tank would go is horizontal to the floor joists and does not have much support. When we run through the room with our 75 gallon tank it sort of wobbles!

That is a relief on the breeding. I'm not supposed to give away, sell or put the young back into the river so I would rather they just get eaten.

Edited by scifisarah, 05 February 2013 - 08:18 PM.

Some movement in your floors can be expected. I would not even worry about 40 gallons. Your refrigerator puts as much weight or more per square foot as a 40 gallon tank with a proper stand. You probably notice the bounce of the floor more with the 75, because you notice the ripples. If it were absent, you may not notice. I am a contractor, and if I were worried about the weight of a 40 gallon aquarium in any direction in my house, I would not be living in it.

That is a relief on the breeding. I'm not supposed to give away, sell or put the young back into the river so I would rather they just get eaten.

Please never put fish back into the wild. If you have fish you don't want, you can:
sell them on aquabid.com
give them away on craigslist.org
offer them on the NANFA trading dock
kill them

but please never release them back into the wild. Even if they don't look sick, they could be harboring an invisible pathogen that could spread and infect the fish in your home river. Diseases like ich, velvet, fish tuberculosis, camallanus, etc are quite common in household aquariums and we wouldn't want them transferred to our native waterways.

So, that's not an option. I know you were saying you wouldn't, but since this is a public forum I just thought I'd make that clear for all the people in the future who read this.

Edited by EricaWieser, 06 February 2013 - 07:53 AM.

Long low tanks are perfect - anything more than a foot high is wasted space for darters. Males will challenge and chase each other (and sometimes dominant females will too) but I havent seen darters get into serious damaging fights. Just make sure everybody is getting enough food. You may need to put food several places in the tank so the less dominant ones can get their share.

I'm in the very early stages of planning a darter tank. I'd like greenside, rainbow, fantail, iowa, least, johnny, orangethroat, or banded darters - depending on which I can find. I plan on creating the riffle habitat with a Fluval 405 canister filter and making some sort of spray bar that I can put at one side of the tank, and have the intake on the other end.

I have some pretty basic questions such as:

What size tank would be good for darters? I have a 40 gallon long (48Lx12Wx16H) already but was also considering a 20 long (30x12x12) or a 30 x-long (48x12x12) since I'm not sure how much height they would need. A lighter tank would be better so it doesn't put stress on our floor and the 40 is about maxing it out without needing supports. The plus of using a shorter tank as Gerald said anything over a foot is pretty much wasted space for darters to feel comfortable. Shorter tanks also allow for a stronger current within the entire depth of the tank using a smaller pump. Personally I like placing the inlet from my pump just below the surface at one end of the tank for several reasons. I like the riffle effect, it keeps the surface of the tank stirred up, and I feel it pulls the most amount of oxygen into the tank possible. There are also plus' using the deeper tank.The greater the total water volume the slower the perameters of the water will decline. Meaning as I am sure you know ammonia & nitrite increases, as well as temp fluctuations. So consider how heavy a load will you have on your tank. A deeper tank also allows for more choices for aquascaping and if you eventually want to add shiners/minnows later on.

Do I need to worry about male/female ratio? I am used to cichlids where you need one male to several or many females. If I have lots of males of the same type, will they fight? Personally if I was just setting up a tank for a communtiy type tank and not trying to breed I'd probably just try and get males. They are the most colorful of many of the varieties you mentioned and the females could be left to spawn in their habitat.

Can all the the darter species I listed above live harmoneously in one aquarium, or will there be compatability problems?
I don't see any issues really. I would be sure to create areas for each to call "home" like rock structures etc. If I had any concern it might be keeping Greensides with Least darters only because of the size differences. I've not kept Least darters myself since they are endangered in my state but I am under the impression they are one of the smaller darters and I know how big the greensides get.
Is it possible for any of them to hybridize?
Yes in an inclosed environment such as a tank that is always a possibilty. Sperm travels in the water looking for an unfertilized egg and if it finds one close by unfertilized it will do what it set out to do. I have had two different types of Gouramis Trichopodus microlepis and Colisa labiosus hybridize and they had built their nests almost a foot apart.
How many darters at most should be stocked in each of the tank sizes (40L, 30XL, or 20L)? I know you are wanting specific numbers but I don't like to give "a number" because the would be determined on your water volume, filtering capacity, the types of darters you get etc. Because of the size differences I would put less Greensides or more Least in the same tank than I would the others you mention since they are about medium in size compared to them. What I would do is add a few darters at a time and watch the tank as it develops into a community.

Ken summed things up pretty well. Something I would add about compatibility though is to make sure you are able to get everyone fed. I have had problems keeping some of the more aggressive feeders like rainbows and fantails with more timid feeders like johnnys and Iowas. In my experience, the "rowdyness" of the fantails and rainbows during feeding seemed to intimidate some of the others and they would avoid the feeding area. Other people have successfully kept them together though, so it can be done.

I find if you have enough current to keep the food moving around everyone seems to get their fair share.

All very helpful responses, thanks! I did not know which species are more aggressive/outgoing and which are more timid. They will be kept in our living room, and my 3 & 4 year old will be running around making lots of noise. Of the darters in my area (rainbow, fantail, iowa, least, johnny, orangethroat, or banded darters) are there any I should not keep under those conditions? I didn't think about getting all males - I like the idea of leaving all the females in the rivers to continue breeding there. In Michigan, I was told by the DNR that I could not give any babies away or sell them anyway. Any yes, they should definitely not be put back into the river.

From that list, I've only kept rainbows and orangethroats. My experience has been that rainbows spook at the slightest movement and hide in the back of the aquarium until things calm down. Orangethroats, on the other hand, would get excited by movement in front of the aquarium. It was probably conditioning to their feeding time. I could tap on the glass and they would come to the front to see what the excitement was about.

Iowa darters are more of a pool species (at least in the wild). I don't think they would appreciate the riffle habitat that the others like.