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my ramblings on algae...


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#1 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:50 AM

from time to time i get into a strange manic mood, in which i utterly fail in every attempt to quiet my mind. during these moments, i have developed some of my most successful ideas, from mutating fish, to ecological applications, and even inventions and innovative ways to blur the lines between electronics theory and its applicability to biology, even aquarium husbandry. right now, i am in such a mood. its one of the most irritating things, i want to sleep so that i am not completely dead tired tomorrow when i go back to class, but i cannot. i have tried many times, and have learned that i will simply lay there for hours and hours, ever getting distracted from sleep by a random visualization that forces itself upon my conscious. i also love it. its the only time i can write one language with one hand, take notes in another language on another train of thought with the other hand while listening to music and reading an unrelated topic. the feeling of having so much go on is addictive. exhausting, but extremely addictive. for several hours straight i feel like i can do anything, and it is when i think the fastest.

one day, in such a mood, i walked into my in-laws place and saw their ten gallon tank over run by a tough hair algae. when i saw it, i saw possibilities. my thought process went something like this: that looks like an ugly, unkempt moss. i wonder what it could do if it were actually cultured. so i collected some and brought it home with me. i put it first in my elassoma gilberti tank, and just let it grow. it grew pretty quick, but in no way was it aesthetically pleasing. it looked like crap. later on, in another such mood, i saw what i needed to do.

i imagined a situation in which the algae grew nice and dense, similar to an attractive moss, and then i recreated the scenario in my head in order to have a model to grow my algae in. what i saw in my head was the algae that grows on rocks in faster flowing streams, which sometimes forms a bit of curly hair type algae on it, which grows in very dense thin mats. what made this algae any different from the algae in a lake? well, for one it had a very high amount of flow. two, it received full exposure to sunlight every day, since the particular stream i remembered seeing the attractive algae in had virtually no tannins in it and was quite shallow. three, it was constantly being grazed by critters that were able to scrape the algae off, or it was repeatedly exposed to dryness. this caused it to grow back thicker every time, since damaging a thread of algae often causes it to grow back in two or more threads.

so, these were the conditions that i needed to replicate to produce an attractive algae inside my tanks. the first thing i tried was attaching some of it to a little stone and putting it in front of a filter output. that didn't work so well, even with the high flow and regular trimming, it still produced very unattractive loose strands that would grow very long, but wouldnt form much in the way of a tight clump. fast forward a couple weeks. i end up in the mood again and decide to put an airstone on the E. gilberti tank. it felt like a gunshot went off in my head with how fast visualizations flashed along. in the time it took the first bubble to catch a few threads and start lifting it to the surface, my mind raced through a whole process:
grow the algae out along the surface, leave the lights on 24/7 to promote strands growing in one direction(up). add another type of algae, which can grow partially immersed, and encourage it to grow on the surface of the loose mat. after it is established, flip the mat over and let it grow until the secondary algae type grows back through the whole thickness of the algae mat and is protruding out the surface again. after this, increase flow to the bottom of the algae mat and turn the lights off. this will cause the algae near the top to die back just a little bit while keeping the bottom part alive. then, do the same thing on the other side. why? because the long thin strands of algae are faster growing and store less sugars than the slower growing, more dense type of algae. in other words, it would die faster than the type of algae i actually wanted to grow into a pad. after this, flip it back over and continue doing so until the majority algae is the thick stuff. by that point, i will have a thick pad of algae that i can cut into manageable strips.

so, that's what went through my head as i looked into the tank and watched the bubbles that day. the images that flashed though my head like southern lighting laid out the whole process. i knew how to make hair algae manageable, something that would allow me to make it look good. well, here are some pics of the result. showing some examples of what i have done with it so far. it is also amazing for fry, but more on that later.

showing how the algae looks when it is first grown into a floating mat:
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a thin piece, showing the layers it develops after it is flipped over a few times and cut into a thin strip:
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showing a piece that i cut and cleaned up a bit.
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the next few images are showing a few things i did with the algae. i attached them to pieces of wood with black thread.
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recent:
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it acts a lot like a fast growing moss, especially if you provide it with a lot of flow. in fact, if you blast water on it and trim it often, it will grow much like a marimo ball.

its getting late, and my mind is starting to slow down a bit, so im gonna log for now. later on, probably when my mind is racing again, ill hop back on and explain how i use it to raise fry, why it works, and more of my observations thus far.

#2 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:51 AM

ok, on to the way i use algae for fish....

so, after finding out how to grow the algae, it occurred to me that algae produces a LOT of oxygen. when looking into a stagnant tank that i had placed some of the floating mat of algae, i saw that it quickly began to pearl. it was pearling without any CO2, and continued to do so until it floated to the surface. this got me thinking. what if i applied current to it, and bathed it in 24/7 bright light? it would end up with a LOT of oxygen.

as it turns out, algae is incredibly efficient at producing oxygen. if you stop and think about it, it makes sense that hair algae would be far more efficient at producing oxygen than plants. every single cell in a strand of algae will continuously grow. plants dont. generally speaking, once a leaf is formed, it no longer grows, and is only there to support the overall organism. this means that a plant can survive harder times than algae can, since it does not need a constant supply of nitrogen to survive. it can survive long periods of relatively infertile times because it can store its resources and continue to grow later on. algae on the other hand, cannot. the best it can do is form some spores that are able to rest in a dormant state and begin growing when conditions are more favorable. when conditions are good, it will grow incessantly, since it cannot store much in its cells. any and all nutrients available will be used as fast as the algae can use it.

now, on to surface area. a clump of hair algae has a lot of it. we already addressed the way algae grows in a constant vegetative state when it can. when you think about it, that means that one ounce of hair algae will end up pulling out much more ammonia and produce much more oxygen than one ounce of plant will. it comes down to how fast the algae can double its mass. a plant may produce a few more leaves in a week, but hair algae given everything it needs will completely double or maybe even triple its mass. and of course, it will continue to double its mass as long as it is not limited by nutrients. now, here is the interesting fact: algae can survive with very little in the way of additional nutrients as long as it has access to light. its capable of recycling some of the nutrients it has in order to stay alive, just as long as it can carry out photosynthesis. during dark times, if it the water is completely devoid of nutrients, it is unable to do this. cells will begin to produce spores, which dont grow. with light, they just continue producing oxygen, slowly accumulating nutrients until the cell can divide.

providing the algae with high flow does several things. first, it ensures a constant exchange of dissolved gasses around the individual cells. the algae becomes more dense because it can. without high flow, it quickly uses up all the available carbon dioxide, supersaturates the water around its cells with oxygen. it will continue to live with all that oxygen present, but without new water, it has only the resources in its cells an in the interstitial space between its cells and the cells of adjacent strands. providing it with high flow ensures that it will have plenty of resources available to continue doing what it does best: turning carbon dioxide into oxygen and converting available phosphorus and nitrogen into more cells.

in a tank with fish, this means that the water will have the highest possible levels of oxygen, and the lowest possible levels of ammonia and every nutrient that algae needs. the benefit goes beyond this though. every surface under water has a bio-film on it. these bio-films are just a bunch of tiny living things, which sometimes produce a matrix of protein and sugar, which protects them and produces a better environment for them to live in. with so much surface area, a dense clump of algae has a LOT of it. there is a HUGE variety of living things that are able to eat these bio-films. infusoria living on the surface of decomposing leaves and such is an example. with all the oxygen that algae produces, and all the surface area, a dense clump of algae can sustain a LOT of these tiny critters.

all this adds up to a tank that is able to produce the best possible environment for fry to live in. with a huge variety of living things available, fry are able to have access to an appropriate food animal at all times, regardless of their size, up until they are large enough to eat something larger, like grindal worms. the fish is too small to eat newly hatched brine shrimp? no problem! the algae is absolutely crawling in ciliates that it can eat. when it gets a little bigger, it can start eating the rotifers that are also present in such large quantities. after its grown up a little bit, it can start eating the great number of ostracods and copepods that have been growing unrestricted in the algae. later on, if they are present, dero worms and grammarious will be taken up. at that point you can start feeding them grindal worms.

actually, at that point you can feed them anything you want. the algae will have reach a point where it is being limited by nutrients, and anything that isnt eaten by the fish will be quickly converted to algae, just as soon as it starts to break down and release ammonia. with so much algae ready to suck up the ammonia, you will probably never be able to get a reading. this makes it VERY hard to overfeed.

using these methods, i have been able to raise this many bluefin killifish in a five gallon tank, up until they are all at least an inch long.
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there are somwhere around 50 in there. they are now around 2 inches, are still in the same five gallon tank, which has no filter on it, and i still cant get an ammonia reading. they get about a teaspoon of grindal worms a day, which dont die until they are eaten. there is enough oxygen present to keep the grindal worms alive until they are eaten. the algae is pretty incredible stuff. i currently have a couple hundred blue fin killifish that i need to get rid of... and they are all crammed in about 20 gallons of water. please, dont start telling me i am cruel for doing so. i want to know the limits of the algaes abilities, and therefore must push these tanks to the absolute limit. i know its not a good idea to keep fifty or a hundred inches of fish in five gallons of water. i also would not have thought it possible a couple years ago...

anyway, i have been able to raise about 20 fish to about an inch long without feeding them at all, as long as i can keep the flow high enough in the tank and keep the lights on 24/7. the affect produces large clumps of algae that are so dense that the fish cannot graze all of it, so there area "reserves" that keep the food items from going extinct. this has allowed me to inoculate the algae with black worms and not feed the tank at all. at a certain point though, i have too feed the tank something. other wise, the fish get too big, eat too much, and start to starve. when i do feed them, the algae starts to grow more and so do the fish.

#3 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:51 AM

more on the algae....


a power outage can absolutely destroy the affect that the algae produces. in such a case, flow stops, light is no longer produced, and the algae starts use up the available oxygen at a phenomenal rate. this will quickly kill everything in a tank and tank and turn it into a nasty smelling soup. in such case, the tanks can be saved with a relatively simple solution. remove the algae.

the algae is able to survive outside the water as long as it is kept moist. its kinda like a plant in that sense. in order to keep a tank alive with a lot of fish though, you would need a battery powered air stone. usually, blackouts dont last very long, so removing the algae, setting it aside somewhere it can stay moist and still be exposed to air, and adding an airstone can keep a tank alive until the power comes back on. once it does, just drop the algae back into the tank and your good to go. i have weathered a few blackouts this way. the one tank i decided to let go(experiment) turned into soup.

now, onto blue LEDs...
there are grow panels available that use very little electricity, but produce nothing but blue light that is supposed to be usable for plants for photosynthesis. i have tested several of them, and while they do work, the plants dont produce a very appealing look. algae, on the other hand, grows very well under them. using the all blue grow lights, you can use much less energy, produce much less heat, and still have all the beneficial affects of the algae. it really dosnt take a lot of 455nm light to keep the algae thriving. i have successfully kept fish alive in just a bag, with a battery operated LED, and some algae. even hermetically sealed, i have kept fish alive for weeks, with no more than a large bubble of actual airspace. it just goes to show how good the algae is at producing oxygen and sucking up ammonia. i believe that any hermetically sealed tank would need to have some kind of algae in it, with a constant light source.

why did i do such experiments? i saw the scenario flash through my head and i wanted to test it. i have a fascination with ecology, probably because it has so many things going on. when i go manic, its a very appealing thing to think about, since it requires one to consider a large number of variables simultaneously. in order to produce a hermetically sealed environment and keep it alive, one would have to account for a very large number of processes going on simultaneously. very few attempts to produce a self sustaining environment take into account everything going on, so they are destined to fail. the first mistake i always see is that people turn the lights off. they think that its a realistic representation of the earth, since we have a day and night schedule. what they fail to take into account is the fact that oxygen is being produced on the other side of the planet during the night. when you turn a light off in a sealed tank, oxygen isnt being produced anywhere. its like eliminating the sun entirely.

#4 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:29 PM

Absolutely amazing! So the hair algae is just normal Cladophora?

#5 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:27 AM

That is really amazing innovative stuff! Make-your-own Marimo balls!

#6 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:39 AM

Grow your own pot scrubbers. You scare me Auban -- really brilliant, but you scare me ... |;>)

#7 Guest_trygon_*

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:27 AM

Nice write up. I do like the mats you made out of the algae, that's very clever. However, your system concept has been used for many years on the marine side of the hobby, they call them refugiums; using a turf alga and or other macro algae in a small aquarium and plumb it into the main system. One still derives the benefits of the micro food source, but allows for a more normal photo period on the main aquarium.

Bryce

#8 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:33 PM

Nice write up. I do like the mats you made out of the algae, that's very clever. However, your system concept has been used for many years on the marine side of the hobby, they call them refugiums; using a turf alga and or other macro algae in a small aquarium and plumb it into the main system. One still derives the benefits of the micro food source, but allows for a more normal photo period on the main aquarium.

Bryce


thats part of where i got the idea from. problem is, nobody was actually doing it with fresh water, seemingly because nobody could figure out a way to make it work very well. i just felt like doing it.

that and, well, the micro food source doesnt work as well when its used in a refugium set up. i have tested that and somethings just dont come off the algae as well as i would like. its better for the fish to give them direct access.

it could certainly be used like a marine aquarium though.

Edited by Auban, 20 April 2013 - 08:37 PM.


#9 Guest_steve_*

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:56 PM

Very nice and informative write up. Thank you much for time and pictures also. I've been employing the benifits of algae for biological filtration in all of my tanks in some form or another for more than a year now.(some with algae scrubbers, and others with algae in the tanks) Like you mentioned, it really does help out in those tanks where it's neccessary to overfeed. I haven't been nearly as creative asthetically with it as you have, but I do like the look of the lights shining through a few inches of floating hair algae on top the water.

Thanks again, I really enjoyed the reading and I'm looking forward to more.

#10 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:22 PM

Does algae provide any special benefits above and beyond what a tankfull (or refugium-full) of fast-growing vascular plants or mosses provides? (Guppy-grass, Elodea, Hornwort, Frogbit, Javamoss, Water sprite, ...)

#11 Guest_steve_*

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:35 PM

Auban will probably be able to give better information and explanations on this than I can, but from my experiences with both plant filtered tanks and agae filtered tanks, it seems that algae is a more powerful nutrient remover than plants. It can easily remove both ammonia and nitrate whereas many plants have a stronger preferance for ammonia which can cause struggles between plants and filters for the ammonia which can result in increased nitrate levels.(of course removal of filter media is an option). Algae can also survive with salt added to the water where as that seems to be rough on a lot of plants.

#12 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:48 AM

Auban will probably be able to give better information and explanations on this than I can, but from my experiences with both plant filtered tanks and agae filtered tanks, it seems that algae is a more powerful nutrient remover than plants. It can easily remove both ammonia and nitrate whereas many plants have a stronger preferance for ammonia which can cause struggles between plants and filters for the ammonia which can result in increased nitrate levels.(of course removal of filter media is an option). Algae can also survive with salt added to the water where as that seems to be rough on a lot of plants.


thats a big part of it. algae doubles its mass a lot faster, and in doing so removes more nutrients than most plants can once it reaches a critical mass. since all of it grows, ten grams of algae will remove more nitrogen from the water than ten grams of plants over a period of time. after a week, the plant will have gained maybe a few grams while the algae might have tripled its mass.

now, i dont know how to prove it, but i suspect that the algae that i have can use carbonates for photosynthesis. if i add aragonite(crushed coral) to the tanks with the algae, it grows much faster. im not sure if this is because it directly uses the carbonates in the water or if the lights break down the carbonates and release some CO2. either way, it grows faster. i do know that CO2 is usually a limiting factor for plants, while nitrogen and phosphorus usually limit algea and cyano. of course, if the they can produce some phosphoric acid somewhere(maybe its produced in the water column...) this might sense, since phosphoric acid binds with calcium carbonate and releases some CO2 in the process, but i dont yet have a good enough understanding of everything going on to know if it does that or not. maybe after i leave the service and go to college. my understanding of chemistry isnt all that great at the moment.

now, i also have a tank that has a lot of UV bulbs on it and gets a lot of aragonite from time to time. i have found that the ludwigia in that tank grows a LOT faster than in tanks without both the light and the aragonite. when one or the other is missing, i dont see such a fast growth. i even had some ludwigia palustris hybrid bloom under water in that tank, something i have never seen anywhere else.

when i was trimming the ludwigia, i saw several blooms that were completely submerged, so i clipped them to the sides of the tank to see what would happen. i didnt really expect them to open up underwater, but they surprised me.
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the only other benefit i can see from the algae, in terms of water quality, would be the level of dissolved oxygen. the stuff pearls up even when i dont supplement the water in any way. good old wetzel tells me that one of the way that some types of cyano extract nutrients from the substrate that they are on is by saturating the substrate with oxygen, bringing the O2 levels to many times higher than would normally be possible in natural waters. this causes some of the nutrients in the substrate to be oxidized, which the cyano can then use somehow. i cant remember if they use it directly or if it promotes bacteria that changes its form into something the cyano can use.... ill have to read the limnology book again. i have seen cyano clinging to the strands of algae, but i only see it under a microscope. it may be contributing to the effect.

i do know that fish that are kept in a breeder box on the side of the algae tanks grow faster than fish in the same type of box on a tank that has only plants. i think this is because of higher O2 and lower nitrates. ammonia was at 0 for both tanks, but the planted tank had a little nitrate.

so, very high levels of oxygen and very low levels of nitrogen... and pretty much every other benefit that comes along with plants. algae soaks up heavy metals just like plants do, and as long as it is growing to its full potential, it probably outperforms them in that area as well. im certain about that one though, i havent tested any heavy metals in my algae driven tanks.

when it comes to feeding small fry, i cant say enough for it. there is just so much stuff living in the algae. its far more than i have ever found on plants, even mosses. looking at it under a microscope, it supports an entire little ecosystem.

Edited by Auban, 25 April 2013 - 02:53 AM.


#13 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:26 AM

well, i have gone and done something that i may end up regretting... i added the algae to my 65 gallon aquarium. this is the same tank that had all my bluefin killifish, the one that was beautifully planted before i moved. well, its still beautifully planted, only now, there is a LOT of algae covering absolutely everything. :)

the way i'm looking at it, the plants are still growing, so they are still pulling out things like heavy metals, nitrogen, etc, and i get the added benefit of the algae as well. i removed all the fish except for a five empire gudgeons, a non-native. one of the things i want to do eventually is successfully raise some of our native stomatopods. in my opinion, some of the species from the gulf of mexico are the greatest things since sliced bread, and nobody so far has come up with a way to raise the young in respectable numbers in captivity. ill be experimenting with this system(and the tiny gudgeon fry) and later with the stomatopods to see if some of the principles might apply to a marine system as well. i don't see a reason why they shouldn't...
they are another one of those "easy to breed, hard to raise" kinda critters.

i managed to sell a couple hundred of my bluefin killifish, so a i was able to open up a few five gallon tanks for elassoma gilberti pairs. unfortunately however, my fish room overheated, with the overall temperature reaching nearly 110 degrees, which killed off most of my grindal worm culture(thank god the fish were OK). i have made sure the problem cant happen again, and the culture is rebounding quickly, but it has set my breeding efforts back about a month or two. when the culture is in full swing again, i plan on devoting more attention to the pygmy sunfish.

it doesn't help that i spend an average of 14 hours a day studying Arabic so far, i have missed so many spawnings that i have only been able to produce a handful of fry in the last month, maybe ten. i'm hoping that that number will increase as i move the pairs to algae tanks. i hate to say it, but i have come to avoid my fish room except for weekends and the very short time i spend feeding my fish every night. if i go in there when i get home, ill spend hours in there and not get ANY studying done...

in other news, i found that grindal worms like the pellet feed they make for rabbits and guinea pigs.

Edited by Auban, 08 May 2013 - 12:31 AM.


#14 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:03 AM

I hereby lobby to NANFA that stomatopods are to be considered "fish" because I really really want to hear about this. If you decide to get rid of the algae, you should be able to use glutaraldehyde for a while to knock it out. I finally rid myself of black brush algae thanks to the stuff. Flagfish, nerites, and SAE would help knock it back to acceptable levels too.

#15 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:29 AM

stomatopods are native invertebrate, albeit marine. whenever i get around to breeding them, ill write about it.

Edited by Auban, 08 May 2013 - 07:46 AM.


#16 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:24 AM

I think y'all would be OK to put this in a separate thread under the Invert sub-forum (I know that it says FW in the title, but also says "all inverts" in the sub title... go for it).
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#17 Guest_trygon_*

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 09:27 PM

Good luck with your stomatapod project. Don't forget to study Dr. Roy.

#18 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:14 PM

Good luck with your stomatapod project. Don't forget to study Dr. Roy.


i have actually been picking his brain for a while. from what he has told me, it will be an interesting challenge to tackle, but i dont believe it will be impossible(although he usually tells me im wasting my time...).
the algae should take care of water stability(ill have to find a different type for a marine setup), which leaves me with finding ways to feed them. i have a few ideas in mind as to what to culture for that.

#19 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:29 AM

i started a thread in the invert section to discuss stomatopods.

#20 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 06:36 PM

well, im still working with the algae. i have already sent it out to quite a few people, and i have been getting a lot of positive feedback.

one thing that was annoying me for a while was the way the algae likes to clog up filters and power heads. since keeping a decent amount of water flow helps it grow so much, i needed to prevent it from clogging the filter. well, this is what i came up with.

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i took bamboo skewers and wrapped algae around them with some yarn i had on hand. after a couple weeks and a few more algae wrapped skewers...

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this is much easier to maintain. i can remove the rods and trim them easily, which was hard to do with the driftwood log. i have been getting a lot of requests from people asking me how to better use the stuff, since they are getting much higher than normal fry survival rates. one such request was to come up with a way to keep a bare bottom tank, so that they can feed the fry whatever they want, get the benefits of the way algae removes ammonia, and still be able to keep the bottom of the tank clean.


well, this is what i came up with so far:
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basically, its an open trough that the water runs down, made of the same algae rods i made for the other tank. this applies the highest possible water flow on the algae, which will make it grow as fast as possible, while at the same time keeping the powerhead from getting clogged up. it also keeps the bottom of the tank free of clutter. it certainly is easy to tear down and set up. i have the powerhead pulling from the bottom of the tank in this pic, but it could easily be rotated so that it pulls from the side of the tank near the surface. that way, you could feed the fry whatever you want and the food wont immediately get pulled into the powerhead. or you could just turn it off when you feed them...




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