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Unknown bullhead

Started by Guest_adixon816_* , Sep 15 2013 12:25 AM

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50 replies to this topic

#21 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 15 September 2013 - 12:20 PM

Adixon,

Here, "large eye" is meant relatively, among the different bullheads. Yellow, browns, and blacks have eyes that are smaller than other bullheads. Even allowing for the reflectiveness of the fish's eye making it look a little larger than it probably is your fish seems to have a big eye.

I will in no way dare dispute a fish's id with the others chiming in here. I'd get my icthyological pants pulled down and spanked. (That's why I like it here; these folks are good!) For what it's worth though, I'd be inclined to agree with Michael based on the following; eye size, black edging on fins, barbel coloration, size of anal fin. If it's not a snailie, I would guess it some bullhead local to you. I don't know what kind of fish your lfs carries, but it seems odd to me that the supplier would grow out and ship such a fish as a bullhead. I'm guessing somebody's kid's catch outgrew its welcome in a home aquarium and it got "traded in".

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#22 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 12:22 PM

Michael, I think the absence of the blotch at the base of the dorsal fin and the 2 possibilities of origin suggest it is not either snail or flat. If the fish had been captured and photo'd streamside if far eastern AL then I would be much more suspicious.

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#23 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 12:25 PM

Matt I do certainly accept the small eye v big eye contradiction my guesses have caused. I am by no means definitive in my ID based on these photos just attempting to use Occams theory to be contrary.

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#24 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 15 September 2013 - 12:32 PM

Matt I do certainly accept the small eye v big eye contradiction my guesses have caused. I am by no means definitive in my ID based on these photos just attempting to use Occams theory to be contrary.

Be as contrary as you want; I'm happy to be taken seriously! O:)

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#25 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 03:34 PM

I know next to nothing about bullheads except for yellow, black, and browns. But from photos, the snail, flat, etc. seem to have a less robust body shape than the "smalleye bullheads" This fish seems fairly robust, and looks like a lot of the photos of southern brown bullheads. For what it's worth.

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#26 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 15 September 2013 - 03:46 PM

Michael, I think the absence of the blotch at the base of the dorsal fin and the 2 possibilities of origin suggest it is not either snail or flat. If the fish had been captured and photo'd streamside if far eastern AL then I would be much more suspicious.

Thanks Dustin... I know my first rule is usually 'know where you are standing'... which in this case doesn't really help us because he was standing in a pet store... and I do think it is weird to have a snail bullhead in a pet store... but unless someone wants to tell me that yellows can be that speckled, then I m going to rely on the chin barbel argument and say snail again.

I mean gee, if we are going to debate, I might as well stick with my key decision... I guess we need some anal fin ray pictures/counts

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#27 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 04:11 PM

I have no clue. But thoroughly enjoying this ID thread.

Also, 2nd thanks on explaining the in-tank photo and trying to follow the rules.

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#28 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 04:29 PM

Adixon, we need a clear shot of the base of the dorsal fin and a clear shot of the anal fin while it is completely fanned out. With this, we should be able to close the book.

I don't think it's a yellow. Even though they can show some mottling, I don't remember seeing any quite like this.

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#29 Guest_adixon816_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:21 PM

Adixon, we need a clear shot of the base of the dorsal fin and a clear shot of the anal fin while it is completely fanned out. With this, we should be able to close the book.

I don't think it's a yellow. Even though they can show some mottling, I don't remember seeing any quite like this.

I will be where the fish is tomorrow morning. I can handle the shot of the dorsal fin, do you have any tips on the anal fin? Do I have to remove him from the tank to get it? I will borrow my moms digital camera for some better pictures. Appreciate all the help and advice so far I want to give this guy a proper home. Like I said the only thing I know about him is that he was a stow away in a shipment of feeders and was fascinating as anything.

Edited by adixon816, 15 September 2013 - 05:25 PM.

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#30 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:41 PM

You may be ale to get a decent photo of the anal fin if he swims to the surface but the most reliable way would be to have some one help and hold him against some thing white so the anal fin is spread. This may require removing him for the tank. This might not be worth your while.

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#31 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:56 PM

Sorry to chime in late here, spent the weekend chasing muskies. I think folks are right in suggesting that the flash makes the eye look unusually large. I would be very tempted to agree that it's a southern brown bullhead. Those barbels are weird, but they do seem to have at least some darker pigment towards the tips. More photos would help.

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#32 Guest_butch_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 06:09 PM

Gosh I hate to ID bullheads. I just saw other pictures at a different forum as it do have some darker pigment on the whiskers. I don't see any black spot on the base of dorsal fin in these pictures. As for the local variants of bullheads (black, yellow and brown) I've seen some marbled blacks before and the yellows have darker chin whiskers but they are usually adults. Tho I don't think I ever seen a spotted version of yellow bullhead before beside few faintly marbled yellows existed.

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#33 Guest_Gavinswildlife_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 06:51 PM

8$ for a bullhead? Many hatcheries sell them for <6$

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#34 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 06:57 PM

I don't have much to contribute as far as "new" information goes, but kind of agree with the whole eye size, head size, and body shape part. I have limited experience with other than black bullheads, but I've had my hands on literally hundreds of snail bullheads in the last 4 years. And I must say that the snails and flats tend to have that large eye, and large head tapering off to a relatively slender body (as compared to the small eye, small head, large "chest" of the black, brown and yellow bullheads).

Although, Michael's key says snail bullhead. The overall body shape of the subject fish seems...off for a snail bullhead.

Edited by UncleWillie, 15 September 2013 - 06:58 PM.

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#35 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 07:10 PM

Michael is using the key from a photo that is not ideal, so, though the key may work perfect with fish in hand, it may not be 100% accurate in this case. I have nothing beneficial to add, other than better photos would help those in the know ID the fish.

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#36 Guest_gzeiger_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 07:18 PM

Be careful if you decide to remove it from the tank for a photo. I have had catfish get fins severely shredded by a net because they have hard spines that don't bend with the rest of the fin and end up poking through the netting.

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#37 Guest_adixon816_*

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 08:34 PM

I will attempt to get pictures of him in the tank - if it does not work out I'll let him grow some more first. He does not have the black spot on his dorsal fin though, my buddy had a look at him for me and it was all clear. My assumption would be to go with a mottled brown bullhead. I'm going to snap as many pictures as I can and post them up anyways.