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Ironcolor, dusky, or highfin?

Started by mattknepley , Sep 25 2013 09:01 PM

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56 replies to this topic

#21 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:54 AM

I don't think the headshape is quite right. The tail also looks a little off. Also, as Dustin said, Burrhead aren't native to SC, and if there was a pocket of them there, Dustin would be the one that knows.

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#22 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:10 PM

If you find burrheads in SC you have a guaranteed publication for finding them outside the Mobile drainage. Good luck to all.

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#23 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:30 PM

Fairly certain that won't ever happen Bruce.

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#24 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:24 PM

got it guys, burrhead shiner, threatened species.

Burrheads don't have black lower lips

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#25 Guest_Rainbowrunner_*

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:54 PM

Good, now we're getting somewhere. "Sometimes in order to find the right answer, a wrong answer must be presented." -Scotland Yard.

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#26 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 08:15 PM

Sure. I can also tell you it's not a silver shiner, Notropis photogenis. You should avoid attempting to reinvent the wheel.

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#27 Guest_Rainbowrunner_*

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:03 PM

Sorry mattknepley, Without proper fin-ray examination, ID is futile/unreliable. Try playing around with the macro setting of your camera (the flower button).
In my opinion this fish has no ornamental value and may be protected by law so i lost interest, i gave up on ya.. I tried, lord knows i tried. Next ID request that interests me I will ask 2 question, do you have a ray count or macro pics of the fins & why exactly do you want this fish identified. Otherwise, thanks for sharing this challenging ID, keep in mind there are 91 species of Notropis, and like i said before they don't always recognize state lines, some are stubborn and just keep swimming up or down stream into different states or into different bodies of water during floods. This one should remain unsolved, catching them again may weaken their immune system and/or disrupt their fall "fattening up". I now leave you with a photo example of what i look for, to enlarge & study the fins.

Attached Files

ScreenHunter_37 Sep. 29 22.06.jpg 95.78KB 2 downloads
ScreenHunter_35 Sep. 28 12.30b.jpg 95.96KB 3 downloads

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#28 Guest_Rainbowrunner_*

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:05 PM

Burrheads don't have black lower lips

And the earth is flat, be careful making blanket statements. Try: They don't "normally" have black lower lips.
There may be an isolated pocket of them somewhere with black lower lips, who knows?

Edited by Rainbowrunner, 29 September 2013 - 10:12 PM.

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#29 Guest_Rainbowrunner_*

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:06 PM

Sure. I can also tell you it's not a silver shiner, Notropis photogenis. You should avoid attempting to reinvent the wheel.

I can tell YOU it's not a humpback whale. But that bit of information would be equally trivial.

Edited by Rainbowrunner, 29 September 2013 - 10:18 PM.

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#30 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:42 PM

And the earth is flat, be careful making blanket statements. Try: They don't "normally" have black lower lips.
There may be an isolated pocket of them somewhere with black lower lips, who knows?

Anyone know of an isolated pocket of burrhead shiners with black lower lips? Oh, and burrhead shiners do have a snout that slightly overhangs the lips whatever color you believe they might be. Regarding your comment "Definately not ironcolors," You should probably give some supporting reasons for why they are "Definitely not ironcolors". Does anyone know of any isolated pockets of burrhead shiners that do not have a slightly overhung snout?

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#31 Guest_Rainbowrunner_*

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:37 AM

boy boy boy you crack me up. do the fin ray count. Kinda like "show me the car fax". Anyone ever catch a 3.25" ironcolor?? Didn't think so. Oops...might be a freak pocket of them somewhere that grows huge....Anyways like i said i don't care about this ID anymore because i deal mainly in ornamentals, and i'm not exactly swearing its burrhead, just wanting ppl to think outside of the box.

Edited by Rainbowrunner, 30 September 2013 - 01:00 AM.

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#32 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:48 AM

After all the outside the box thinking, they're still duskys.

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#33 Guest_Rainbowrunner_*

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:13 AM

After all the outside the box thinking, they're still duskys.

do the fin ray count. "show me the car fax"

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#34 Guest_BenCantrell_*

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:32 AM

i don't care about this ID anymore

Then it'd probably be best to drop it. Agree to disagree and move on.

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#35 Guest_Rainbowrunner_*

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:14 AM

hmmm....dusky.....

Attached Files

post-4567-0-55260800-138016084bxxxx.JPG 25.5KB 0 downloads
ScreenHunter_37 Sep. 30 11.47.jpg 30.07KB 0 downloads

Edited by Rainbowrunner, 30 September 2013 - 11:18 AM.

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#36 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:26 AM

Actually this has been an excellent thread I think, just shows the process of ID'ing a difficult fish. Highlights what one should be looking for and maybe even the priority of those different steps. Many points may not be definitive in themselves. Illustrates why one should not just look at why a species might be correct but also why it wouldn't be ie. burrhead shiner: no black lower lip,has overhanging snout, out of range. Also things like metalic hugh/reflection/color can be quite variable and percieved differently so may not be as conclusive as some other points. Personally I could see ironcolor or dusky at this point but Dustin's range knowledge and experience especially in SC would certainly lead me in his direction. I personally think some fin ray counts are called for after all this effort. Of course someone may know of an isolated pocket of whatever they are with a different count. Just kidding.

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#37 Guest_Rainbowrunner_*

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:38 AM

Actually this has been an excellent thread I think, just shows the process of ID'ing a difficult fish. Highlights what one should be looking for and maybe even the priority of those different steps. Many points may not be definitive in themselves. Illustrates why one should not just look at why a species might be correct but also why it wouldn't be ie. burrhead shiner: no black lower lip,has overhanging snout, out of range. Also things like metalic hugh/reflection/color can be quite variable and percieved differently so may not be as conclusive as some other points. Personally I could see ironcolor or dusky at this point but Dustin's range knowledge and experience especially in SC would certainly lead me in his direction. I personally think some fin ray counts are called for after all this effort. Of course someone may know of an isolated pocket of whatever they are with a different count. Just kidding.

LOL....only with Evergladei.