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Notropis ID

Started by Guest_dac343_* , Nov 02 2013 03:27 PM

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39 replies to this topic

#21 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 10:42 PM

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#22 Guest_NateTessler13_*

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:34 PM

That's probably why it is so common. When the flows are low, and the streams are mostly pools, the isolated clinostomus get lonely.

Just to chime in...here's some pics of the results of that loneliness.

http://gallery.nanfa...rosomus/hybrid/

Found that one in a Lake Erie trib.

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#23 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:57 PM

Ky hybrid

Attached Files

dace_e__2_.jpg 54.06KB 3 downloads

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#24 Guest_NateTessler13_*

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 06:37 AM

Is that one Clinostomus funduloides x Chrosomus erythrogaster? Or are you still in the range where Clinostomus elongatus may be a parent?

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#25 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 07:55 AM

There are C.elongatus and C.erythrogaster in the stream.

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#26 Guest_dac343_*

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 01:34 PM

Man I should try and figure this fish out for my masters degree lol.

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#27 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 01:47 PM

I think the appearance of the offspring can vary due to the sex/species of contributing parents. Though Marc Kibbey counted this under a scope, one thing he may not have considered is Semotilus. Redside dace x Creek chub?

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#28 Guest_dac343_*

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 02:27 PM

Wouldn't creek chub be a spring spawner and red sides a summer spawner?

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#29 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:07 PM

Those cold heavily wooded streams might skew the lines a bit?
I still believe it is C. x C. But creek chub is something to consider.

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#30 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 02:28 PM

Redside Dace x Blacknose Dace
Man look at the blacknose on that thing :D/

Seriously though, did you consider
C. elongatus x P. stictogaster or maybe
Matt x photoshop :blink:

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#31 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 02:45 PM

Ha! No photoshop skills here.

We need to hit Chimney top creek. I only sampled it for a few minutes. Probably only netted 30-50 yards. I think it could be interesting. I brought 3 of these fish home, but remember seeing quite a few more. I believe there are documented SRBD x creek chub. Could photo them in high resolution and send the photos to Matt T. See what he comes up with.

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#32 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:02 PM

Let me know when you're allowed back in KY and we'll go.

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#33 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:29 PM

I may be staying at that cabin at cave run again within the month. I can use it anytime, just need to coordinate it. The cabin is only 27 miles from Gladie. I am going to take my mom to the cabin for a few days. She will be content reading a book most of the time, so I can easily get away for a day. And I think Kentucky has dropped all charges and I am again welcome in the state. It was hard to convince them that I thought those blackside dace were just creek chubs, but when I mentioned your name as my bait dealer, they seemed to drop it. :^o

Edited by Skipjack, 07 November 2013 - 04:52 PM.
You all know Josh and I are just joking around.

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#34 Guest_dac343_*

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 05:00 PM

Lol I'm thinking going out with you all might cost me my state job lol. If nothing else I work in the same city/agency as Matt T and could easily house some of the individuals at the hatchery for him to look at.

That is if I'm invited lol.

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#35 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 05:09 PM

That would be great. Unless it was just a really odd year, these fish were common as dirt. I will feel bad if we go there and find none. I bet we will find them. I would just like to get a better sampling of the stream. I was with my my wife and kids, so it was not thorough. It is pretty remote, so I bet it is rarely sampled. Maybe it is the chimney top dace. We need a splitter.

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#36 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:21 PM

Clino. funduloides x Chros. oreas happens in the New River in northwest NC. The few hybrids I've seen there look like the half+half blend you'd expect: intermediate in head/mouth shape, color, etc. I kept one in a tank for a couple years, and his behavior was more Clino-like: fast, aggressive surface-feeder.

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#37 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:36 PM

What are your thoughts on the fish that I posted Gerald? It is quite different looking than Nate's fish. Could partially be a function of age/size. My fish was 3+ inches, Nate's are obviously smaller.

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#38 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:37 AM

The KY hybrid in post #23: I can see how Clinostomus x Semotilus could be possible too. The mouth is large and oblique like Clino, whereas most Clino x Chroso hybrids I've seen have a more horizontal mouth. The tiny scales suggest Chroso. Maybe it's not a 1st generation hybrid, but a back-crossed 2nd or 3rd gen hybrid? And as you stated earlier, male sp.A x female sp.B can yield offspring different from male sp.B x female sp.A, since some features may be sex-linked. So... I dunno ... could be Clino crossed with either Chroso or Semo (or both). Hmmm... I wonder if Hemitemia ever gets crossed with Clino or Chroso?

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#39 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:52 PM

A fertile trans-generic hybrid? That's unlikely.

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#40 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 09:44 PM

I used to think that too, until my brother set up a Malawi cichlid tank in the 80s. He didn't want any breeding, so he got just one of everything. Nothing too closely related, and mostly from different genera. They ALL interbred: Haplochromis, Aulonocara, Pseudodtropheus, Melanotropheus, Iodotropheus, etc. And their hybrid offspring interbred, for several generations.