10 gallon Elassoma evergladei setup
#1
Posted 03 May 2014 - 07:51 PM
He has settled in and darkened up and started dancing since I moved them to this setup
She is bigger than he is and not easily impressed.
sometimes he gets ignored even when he is all spangles
but he knows how to turn on the black and dance it out for her
And I have seen at least three juveniles in this tank this afternoon when I was cleaning things up a bit. They hug the bottom and only move if they absolutely have to, but they are definitely growing...
#2
Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:18 AM
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#3
Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:39 AM
But I have seem really small Elassoma grab a brine shrimp that is almost as big as they are and shake it like a dog with a toy. Now this is certainly not going to get the survival rate that other live foods would, but maybe I am just selectively breeding for fish that can be ignored... keep it simple fishkeeping. I thought I saw a tiny sliver or two last weekend, and this weekend I am sure that I saw at least three miniature fish about 1/6 the size of the adults. And that is just the ones that I can see... they are darn difficult to see when they are that small and still and tan.
#4 Guest_Dustin_*
Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:57 AM
#5 Guest_Joshaeus_*
Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:13 AM
#6
Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:27 AM
#7 Guest_Joshaeus_*
Posted 08 May 2014 - 09:22 AM
#8
Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:01 AM
- In tank pond snail eggs from the big as nickels snails in there (see the first picture, that is not perspective, that snail is bigger than my fish)
- Frozen Brine Shrimp (not baby brine)
- Frozen Mysis Shrimp
- Frozen Daphnia
- Freeze Dried Brine Shrimp (rolled between my fingers underwater for a few seconds to loosen it up and make it sink)
- New Life Spectrum Pellets
#9 Guest_Joshaeus_*
Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:09 AM
#10
Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:46 AM
#11 Guest_Erica Lyons_*
Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:58 AM
Example, one of my elassoma gilberti trying flake food. Not pictured: the dozens of elassoma unwilling to try flake, who starved to death.
http://gallery.nanfa...rom surface.jpg
So the issue is not that none of them won't eat it, but that a large number of them won't eat it. I got sick of watching the majority of the fish in my colony starve to death, so I stopped trying to feed them flake. If I had a harder heart I'd put each generation of my breeding project through a flake-only phase before I selected my breeders for making the next generation, but watching them suffer when I have grindal worms right here--I can't do it. The benefit to selecting for a flake-adapted elassoma population is not worth it in my mind, when pet stores sell frozen cubes of bloodworms that are readily available to people unwilling to breed grindal worms. So although I've tried decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, Ken's golden pearls, and flake food, I just wasn't willing to let the majority of my population starve so that a lucky few could be selected for and survive. Also, the ones actually eating flake never ate enough to really color up and breed. Also a problem. They seemed to only eat enough to subsist, not become fat enough to spawn. Sorta like if you forced a human to eat nothing but vegetables and salads; they wouldn't starve to death, but they wouldn't eat as much or as happily as if you gave them the full grocery store to choose from. Could this possibly be overcome by a few years of letting the lowest quartile of the population least willing to eat flake food die of starvation before fattening up the survivors and letting them spawn? It's possible, but I'm not going to be the one to do it.
http://gallery.nanfa...nes surface.jpg
#12 Guest_Dustin_*
Posted 08 May 2014 - 11:19 AM
#13 Guest_Erica Lyons_*
Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:08 PM
True, I did not specifically state my experience when feeding a rotation of decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, Ken's golden pearls, flake food, grindal worms, and thawed frozen bloodworms. So I guess I'll say it outright: I have found that when live or frozen foods are available, the elassoma will not eat the dehydrated foods.I don't believe anyone asked about, or was advocating for, a prepared food only diet. The questions have been based around acceptable forms of food for Elassoma.
Specifically, when either live grindal worm or thawed frozen bloodworms were present, the elassoma simply would not eat on the days of Ken's golden pearls, decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, and flakes. They would wait for the live and frozen to come back and eat then. The only way to get them to be willing to ingest the dry foods was to starve them for several days first as Michael mentioned in his post. After a few days, some figure out that the live worms and thawed frozen insect larvae source had dried up. Only when they were really desperate after several days of no food at all did they begin to nibble dry food. Or at least that's what my experience has been. So if you rotate dry and live/frozen, they'll just not eat on the dry food days. If you starve them for a few days, some will try to eat the dehydrated food. Keep them on the dehydrated food long term? My experience with long term dehydrated food fed elassoma gilberti is that the vast majority of elassoma in the colony died and the ones that remained living did not spawn until they were again fed live/frozen food.
Long story short: In 2011, I tried to feed my elassoma gilberti colony dry flake food only for several months. A lot died and the ones that lived didn't spawn. I put them back on live food diet (grindal worms and thawed frozen blackworms) and they ate and became fat. I was able to collect and hatch fertile eggs. I tried mixing dry and live/frozen foods. They ignored the dry, waiting for the days when I fed live/frozen. If fed at the same time, they'd just snatch the worm or midge larve and ignore the dry particles. I used a variety of dry foods: Ken's golden pearls, flakes, earthworm flakes from Ken's, decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, etc. They just wait for the grindal worms and thawed frozen bloodworms to come back. Dry food just doesn't work, in my experience, with elassoma. Not mixed with other foods, not alone. They didn't spawn without live/frozen foods.
In my experience that's just not true with elassoma. I tried it, many times.If you introduce these prepared foods alongside live or frozen foods and slowly shift the ratio towards majority prepared foods, the fish will generally accept the prepared foods as such and you will be able to supplement the live or frozen food diet with prepared food items.
#14 Guest_Erica Lyons_*
Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:42 PM
#15 Guest_gerald_*
Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:53 PM
Michael - the snail in pic #1 looks like a ramshorn (Planorbis or Planorbella) not a pond snail. Of the two groups of pond snails (Physa and Lymnaea), Physa make soft egg cases (as do ramshorns) than Elassoma can eat. Lymnaea egg cases are probably too tough.
#16 Guest_WyRenegade_*
Posted 08 May 2014 - 01:30 PM
#17
Posted 08 May 2014 - 01:35 PM
I've noticed E. evergladei to be a bit more adventurous than E. gilberti in trying out (and sometimes accepting) non-live foods.
Michael - the snail in pic #1 looks like a ramshorn (Planorbis or Planorbella) not a pond snail. Of the two groups of pond snails (Physa and Lymnaea), Physa make soft egg cases (as do ramshorns) than Elassoma can eat. Lymnaea egg cases are probably too tough.
My bad, poor snail terminology (these are snails that come from my outside ponds, not pond snails). And to be honest, I have not actually seen them eat a snail egg, but I read it (in a book, not just the internet) and I used to see snail eggs on the glass in this tank when it was empty and then you don't see 'em anymore after you put the Elassoma in... so I kinda jumped at the correlation.
#18
Posted 08 May 2014 - 01:41 PM
Michael how long would you say these guys live on average? I saw somewhere that they are fairly short-lived .
You are trying to get me in trouble... I know what everyone says... but life in the wild is different than life in a tank... I believe that this female was wild caught during the "Back to the Swamp" trip in March of 2012. So I am going to say that she is 3 years old. Its one of the reasons I moved them to this tank... she was in a tank with Flagfish and I was afraid I was going to loose them all... I only found her and two others... one was a small female that I done see anymore... the other was this male that was an obvious subadult... until he got put in the tank with the big female and they didnt have to compete for food as much and now he is a real man!
#19 Guest_WyRenegade_*
Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:18 PM
#20
Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:38 PM
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users