Rock bass crappies and sunnies

Hello, I recently lost my last fish in my rather large fishbowl. So yesterday me and a few buddies went out and caught a few... what seem to be redear sunfishes. ALthough I cannot tell for sure as they are all lightly colored and very small still I have a few questions.
When I need to updrage what are the dimensions and cost on a typical 5, 10,12, and 15 gallon tanks?

When I upgrade I would like to add crappie and rockbass, an possibly a largemouth or perch in the mix. Of course when I get an actual tank I will probably add 1-3 crayfish and a few smaller species like ghost shrimp,snails, species of feeder-minnows.

Before I do this though I live in Southeastern Wisconsin and rock bass are scarce. I've only caught one around here before. Crappie in the size I want are also scarce. As far as I'm thinking the smaller the better and 3 inch or smaller crappie are pretty much non- existant from what I've seen. I need some advice on how to catch these species. like where and what baits, and types of cover should I look for. Also what time of year? WHere can I find small crappie in the lakes and ponds in the Sheboygan, Wisconsin area?

Tank sizes and prices will undoubtedly vary. Here's what my LFS has:
http://www.elmersaqu...00tankchart.htm

I suggest you check out your own local fish store.

If you have sunfish, you need to upgrade NOW. Even babies should not be kept in a bowl. Get at least a 10-gallon tank for babies, bigger as they grow.

Crappie, rock bass, largemouth bass, yellow perch. If you are planning on keeping all of these in the same tank, you will need a much bigger tank that 10-gallons. I'd say at least a 55, maybe bigger, as these fish grow.

I and many others can get you rock bass, when you have a big enough tank, but not for a goldfish bowl. If you cant' find them locally, post to For Sale/Wanted when you have a big enough tank for them.

Hello, I recently lost my last fish in my rather large fishbowl. So yesterday me and a few buddies went out and caught a few... what seem to be redear sunfishes. ALthough I cannot tell for sure as they are all lightly colored and very small still I have a few questions.
When I need to updrage what are the dimensions and cost on a typical 5, 10,12, and 15 gallon tanks?

When I upgrade I would like to add crappie and rockbass, an possibly a largemouth or perch in the mix. Of course when I get an actual tank I will probably add 1-3 crayfish and a few smaller species like ghost shrimp,snails, species of feeder-minnows.

Before I do this though I live in Southeastern Wisconsin and rock bass are scarce. I've only caught one around here before. Crappie in the size I want are also scarce. As far as I'm thinking the smaller the better and 3 inch or smaller crappie are pretty much non- existant from what I've seen. I need some advice on how to catch these species. like where and what baits, and types of cover should I look for. Also what time of year? WHere can I find small crappie in the lakes and ponds in the Sheboygan, Wisconsin area?

You need to upgrade NOW. A bowl? Not even golfish should live in a bowl. Even a 20 gallon tank is too small for the fish you seem to be interested in. I apologize for my rude demeanor, but you are really overestimating a tanks capacity. I would keep a single rockbass, or maybe a pair with religious waterchanges in a twenty.

If you want to keep these larger fish, please invest the appropriate amount of money in a tank sized for them. I am talking 75 plus gallons. realistically 125

Are you 100% sure it's too small. I applied for a job and I'm only 14. Spending a lot of money on a huge tank and maintaining it will be a problem. The fish I currently have are all like 1 inch-ish right now. Will the 1.5-2g bowl be large enough for now? I would rather keep the fish all small. I heard if their envirement won't allow it they don't grow very large. This si preferable as I'd rather have smaller fish anyways.


Right now I'm feeding them common earthworms. I tried feeding them tropical fish flakes but they would't take it. The smallest fish out of the 3 won't move out of his corner. any advice on training them to take flakes or what type of prepared food should I look for (preferably something that can be found at a typical fish store,

What are the dimensions of 5 to 20 gal tanks in inches? preferable rectangular ones that are longer then they are high.

I've been using declorinated tap water... pond water isn't really an option due to where I live. Should I switch to spring or what?

Yes, 100% sure it is too small. You need quite a bit of space for the fish you listed. I have a 240 gallon tank, and it has ten fish in it. Granted they are all large, but they are all similar species to the ones you have listed.

It's good. My birthday is on the 21st of April. I asked them if I could pick out a larger tank with them (20ish gallons prbably maybe bigger)
I know you said 55+ but would this be sufficient for a few smaller fish? with minnows a crayfish and a few smaller crustationes

what should I do about the fish that won't eat/ move out of his corner?


http://www.elmersaqu...erkit20long.htm

or

http://www.elmersaqu...lon breeder.htm


sorta seems like something I'll end up buying.

If you can't afford a larger tank(55 gallons or larger) I suggest you change the species of fish your interested in keeping. There are smaller species of sunfish out there but not so much in your area. Green Sunfish are probably the smallest available to you but take a look at some others in the photo gallery (link in the heading at the top of the page) and other fish, maybe some minnow species or darters, just keep an open mind and do some more looking around. If you find something your interested in feel free to ask more questions. Also often other members will mail you fish if something your interested in is not found in your area for the cost of shipping. Just do some looking around and I agree with everyone else a fish bowl is way to small for even a 1 inch sunfish, at least a 5 gallon tank is needed. As far as getting the one to come out of the corner, I would say that if it's the smallest one in the bowl he likely is hiding from the others, all sunfish are quite territorial and without space and places to hide do not do well with a lot of them in a small area. Your water quality also may not be so good with the small space and no filtration. The waist from the fish and leftover food causes ammonia levels to rise quickly which can be very detrimental to the fish. Do a little research and ask questions so you are informed and learn how to care for your fish.

with the sunnies in the bowl, you need to be doing a 100% water change every day.

Fish produce ammonia, from gills and urine
with 1.5 to 2 gals the ammonia lvls would reach toxic very, very quick

use dechlorinated water for your water changes.

have you ever kept fish before?
If you have not, no big deal

there are a few things that are very important to successful fish keeping

1.) research your fish. know before you get it how large it gets, what type of water parameters it needs, and what it eats.

2.) Provide a proper tank for your fish. make sure that the tank has antiquate space for your fish , and most importantly has an established nitrogen cycle, and a filter sized right for your bio-load.

3.) Set up a weekly schedule for tank maintenance and water changes. I do 50% water changes on all my tanks once a week, some people say its over kill, but i never loose fish to bad water conditions. ( I have lost fish to predation by tank mates, jumping out of the tank, and most recently to not acclimating a fish long enough, keep fish long enough and you are gonna loose some)

I think that a 20 gal tank is the perfect size for a 14 year old to have. it is large enough that you can avoid large, fast, changes in water conditions (the kind that can wipe a tank out) but small enough so that you can easily do your maintenance.

here is a copy of some info on the nitrogen cycle i put in another post, its pretty basic
______________________________________________________________________
nitrogen cycle in a nut shell

fish produce ammonia through gills and urea.

ammonia is a very toxic substance, it will quickly build up and kill your fish

there is a certain bacteria that "eats" ammonia and converts it to nitrIte

nitrIte is even more toxic but there is yet another bacteria that coverts

nitrIte into nitrAte

nitrAte is pretty harmless to fish, nitrate levels should be kept under 20 ppm (mainly by weekly 25% - 50% water changes)

the nitrogen cycle goes like this

ammonia > nitrIte > nitrAte

I hope that the above makes sense, and i hope i have not insulted your intelligence.

________________________________________________________________________

I would not waste my time setting up a nitrogen cycle in the fish bowl, when you get your 20 gal post back and we can walk you through doing a fish less cycle.

also check the classified adds in your local paper, they usually have great deals on used tanks, with filters etc.

one other thing that i feel that i have to mention, when you took those fish home they became your property. I am not sure what the law states in Wisconsin, but almost everywhere across the U.S. and Canada it is illegal to release captive fish into publicly owned water ways. What is more, as I understand it, NANFA stands squarely against the return of captured fish to any natural water ways (rivers, creeks, publicly owned ponds, etc) no mater how long the fish have been in captivity, or where they originated from.

the reason for this is to keep natural ranges of native fish intact, and to keep aquatic disease and parasites from infecting our natural water ways.

if you feel in the future that you cant keep the sunfish, please try to find a home for them. (the trade section has found many homes for fish that were no longer wanted by their old owners)

my 2 cents

Thank you smbass. I can almost assure you I'll be getting a 20-30 gallon tank in roughly a months time. Green sunnies are a FAVORITE fish of mine. I may have to add a longear I think it is becuase of the beatiful blue lines all over the body. The green sunies will probably be eitehr taken from a lake 20 minutes from here ( harder to find) or a lake 45 minutes from here where they are everywhere. Does anyone know any information on catching smaller sized crappie/rockbass??? They only rockbass I've caught was one out of a river here and it looked pale and sickly, and off my uncles dock where you just reel them in one after another. But my uncle lives too far away for me to ge fish from that lake... most likely.




p.s. I"m very interested in how you ship fish back and forth without them dying?


am I possibly underestimating the sizes of these tanks in real life or am I mispercieving the space these fish need?

Search around on here I'm sure there's and old post that explains the fish shipping, Maybe someone else who knows right where there is one can post a link...

I think your just underestimating the space these species need. You likely could keep 1 maybe 2 rockbass in a 20 gallon tank but nothing else. Even the greens I don't think I would keep more than 3 in a 20. There are many reasons for this including, they are territorial and will fight, they get rather large, and produce too much waste for there to be very many in the tank. I would not put a crappie in a 20 gallon tank at all they just get too large, and aside from that they are a little more difficult to care for than the others because they are picky eaters.

I had always thought that if there wasn't enough room for a fish to grow they would just not get larger? is this not the case?

If it's not I deffintely see where your going and will less sparcely populate the tank ...or get a larger one.



I GREATLY appreciate your patience. I realise fish found in ponds/lakes/rivers are much different to the goldfish/guppies/ and sharks I've raised before.

In my experience as long as you keep good water quality in your tank most sunfish species will continue to grow despite being in a small tank. I think the main reason why fish tend to stunt in small tanks is that the quality of the water is not so good from too much waste from a big fish in a little tank rather than the size of the tank actually causing them to stay smaller. I could be wrong though and would be glad to hear some other opinions.

Fish don't grow to the size of their tanks. Provided with good water quality and diet they should continue to grow through out their lives. What stunts a fish's growth is usually poor water quality in the form of excess nitrates or pollution. Stunting is not a good thing. It can deform fish, weaken their immune system and lead to an early death.
You should always IMO stock your tank according to the maximum size the fish can reach. Rockbass can reach about a foot, not even a 20g IMO will work for one of them. Green sunfish can reach about 10". If all you can get is a 20g tank then get a smaller fish, I know you like rock bass and greens but longears, orangespots, bantams, dollar and other sunfish would all work much better in a smaller setup. You don't have to restrict yourself to sunfish either. Madtoms, darters, various cyprinids and killifish, mudminnows...there are tons of natives that if you research you will find just as interesting. If you cannot find these fish in your area then there are many individuals on here who could help you out, all you need to do is provide shipping money (typically around $10.00) or if they don't have them you can talk with an online vendor.

I know for a fact the rockbasss here will probably never get above 8" As I've never seen one in my area over 6. And the only one I've caught in my area was about 4 inches( the strain here I believe is lighter colored and smaller). If they get too big I can always get a larger tank. I love these fish and think they will make an excellent display.As far as the green sunfish I've only caught one over 6 inches in length? It's tt was 7.5 inches. I don't know how to describe this but the average lengths you guys have given me seem way to large for the masses of the fish populations here. We have some really big largemouths and muskies and a few northerns. But most northerns and largemouths are ratehr small (8"-12" for lmb, and 12-20" for northerns). I don't want to sound arrogent because everyone who has posted here knows more of aquariums then I, but I think that should be taken into porportion as well. These fish may grow more in an ideal captive environment though is probably what you are telling me?

The bullheads here to rarely get over 12 inches.... would a smaller one of these make a good addition to the tank>

your probably right that they would be ok while they are small but given food, time and good water quality they will grow. The Bullhead will be ok when it is small but they too can get nasty and territorial when they mature. My wife had a spotted bullhead, which are a smaller species, it got to about 8" and ate the grass pickerel that was probably 6" that it shared the tank with. She then kept it by itself the rest of the time she had it because it would eat, or tear the fins off of anything else she tried to keep with it. This was in a 20 gallon tank.

I know for a fact the rockbasss here will probably never get above 8" As I've never seen one in my area over 6. And the only one I've caught in my area was about 4 inches( the strain here I believe is lighter colored and smaller). If they get too big I can always get a larger tank. I love these fish and think they will make an excellent display.As far as the green sunfish I've only caught one over 6 inches in length? It's tt was 7.5 inches. I don't know how to describe this but the average lengths you guys have given me seem way to large for the masses of the fish populations here. We have some really big largemouths and muskies and a few northerns. But most northerns and largemouths are ratehr small (8"-12" for lmb, and 12-20" for northerns). I don't want to sound arrogent because everyone who has posted here knows more of aquariums then I, but I think that should be taken into porportion as well. These fish may grow more in an ideal captive environment though is probably what you are telling me?

The bullheads here to rarely get over 12 inches.... would a smaller one of these make a good addition to the tank>

There are several reasons why you might not be seeing large fish in your area. The most obvious being that most probably don't live long enough to reach that size. Fish grow through out their lives, the largest fish are typically the oldest. In the wild the lifespan of many fish is shorter then it is in captivity. If you take a rockbass from the wild and properly house it with a decent diet and good water quality there is no reason to think it won't reach about a foot long. We know for a fact these fish can reach that size and so when housing them I think it is best to do so based on that and not on what you have been catching. And sure, it's easy to say "I can get a larger tank when the fish gets larger" but what if you cannot? For whatever reason. Then you are stuck with a large fish in a small tank. Honestly, I don't know why you are so bent on getting a rock bass, I have listen for you many suitable sunfish species that if you researched or kept you would like just as much.
As for bullhead, if a 20g is indeed what you're getting then don't get a bullhead of any speices. They all grow too large IMO for a 20g. Something like a tadpole madtom would be a much better choice.

I think one thing you're missing here is that there is more to consider about the size of the tank then just how big the fish are today or even might be next year. Think about the life and activity of the fish, they need room to be a fish and do all the neat fishy things they normally do. If the container puts them in a stationary prison like state why bother just get a picture or a nice carved fish decoy. But then you'll miss the breeding, the unique antics, the territorial displays and all the interactions of a healthy community of fishes. That said start with a 55 gallon, they can be gotten relatively inexpensively used or on sale at Wal mart. If a smaller tank is the only way to go check out some of the smaller fish they'll last longer and you'll enjoy them more.

Thanks guys I'll tank to my rents about a 55... What do you think they would cost new/used?


p.s. Would green sunfish be appropriate for a 20-30 gallon?

Thanks guys I'll tank to my rents about a 55... What do you think they would cost new/used?
p.s. Would green sunfish be appropriate for a 20-30 gallon?

Thanks guys, I'll talk to my parents about a 55 gallon.

I hate to be that guy but.....It's really not that hard to type just a few more strokes on the keypad.

A new 55 with hood should run about $ 100.00- $120.00 for standard dimensions in a glass model without stand. Stand will run about that same amount depending on what style you'd like. You can make your own utility stand for about $20.00. Would make a great project for you and your father.

You should be able to find a 55 gallon tank/stand combo used for about $ 100.00 if you can be patient.

I appologize for the typoes. SOmetimes I try to type to fast for my own good. I should really learn to look over my posts and use the edit button more often. I appologize for my errors. Anyways.... I thought a 55 would cost way more then that. Shows how much I know, huh? Sounds like a plan I will talk to my rents about it when it gets closer to my birthday. Not only do I appologize for my lack of typing skills, I would like to appologize for my obvious ignorence and me making a forum troll of myself. I thank all of you who have put up with me. And I will try to redeem myself posting about the hopefully healthy fish that will occupy my aquarium.