Hello,
I came across a post on NANFA's website about "recommendations"/guidelines for breeding Blacknose Dace in captivity/home aquaria
(http://www.nanfa.org...inichthys.shtml). I'm trying to breed them as part of a research project and I have a few questions. I've contact the author directly by e-mail, but I thought I would also post here in case anyone else has experience breeding Blacknose Dace.
I have three main questions:
1. In that post, it said use 5 males & 5 females. In some of the scientific literature that I've come across, there are indications that they spawn in smaller groups or even pairs. I'm wondering if there is an ideal size to use, because I only have 10 gallon tanks to work with (I could maybe fit a couple of 20 gallon tanks, but the space is tight)
2. The post suggested using sand or fine gravel. Is there a reason why larger pebbles wouldn't work? I'm just curious the reason for such substrate. And, speaking of which, how deep of a layer of substrate should I use? 1 inch? More? Less?
3. I couldn't tell from the description on that post if the fish came directly from the field or if they had been in a tank for a long period of time prior to spawning. I'm trying to bring fish in from the field right away (assuming I can find gravid females), so I'm wondering if that would work- I know some fish can be brought in right away and they'll spawn (I've done it with topminnows), but I'm not sure if that's a "universal" thing or not.
If anyone has any experience with the Blacknose Dace (or even something closely related), I'd appreciate any and all help! Thanks!
-DPFW
Blacknose Dace Breeding Help
Started by
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, Jul 17 2014 02:08 PM
20 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_centrarchid_*
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Posted 18 July 2014 - 10:10 AM
Will you be able to control room temperature and photoperiod to simulate a fall-winter-spring progression?
When is their breeding season in location they are to be collected?
Do you have the ability to separate genders during conditioning phase?
When is their breeding season in location they are to be collected?
Do you have the ability to separate genders during conditioning phase?
#3
Guest_DPFW_*
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Posted 18 July 2014 - 02:09 PM
Hi,
Yes, I will be able to control room temp and photoperiod. I was planning on keeping it about 65 F and 14L : 10D because that is the conditions when they are spawning around here, but that can be manipulated if someone thought it was necessary for me to simulate the winter/spring.
Their spawning period around here is roughly May - July. It depends on water temperature, so I'm going to sample from a colder water site (spring-fed), because, hopefully, that means I'm not as close to the "tail end" of the spawning season as if I chose something from a warm water site.
Yes, I can separate genders. I was planning on doing that and only bring them together for spawning (put them together first thing in the morning, because they spawn primarily in the morning).
Yes, I will be able to control room temp and photoperiod. I was planning on keeping it about 65 F and 14L : 10D because that is the conditions when they are spawning around here, but that can be manipulated if someone thought it was necessary for me to simulate the winter/spring.
Their spawning period around here is roughly May - July. It depends on water temperature, so I'm going to sample from a colder water site (spring-fed), because, hopefully, that means I'm not as close to the "tail end" of the spawning season as if I chose something from a warm water site.
Yes, I can separate genders. I was planning on doing that and only bring them together for spawning (put them together first thing in the morning, because they spawn primarily in the morning).
#4
Guest_centrarchid_*
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Posted 19 July 2014 - 06:08 AM
Can you take temperature down to about 45 F? That may be needed to get quality simulation of winter temperatures.
I suspect spawning season is effectively done when it comes to you getting ripe females for breeding needs.
Be prepared to invest in conditioning and winter simulation. I suspect that would adapt well to a compressed annual cycle?
What is purpose of experiment?
I suspect spawning season is effectively done when it comes to you getting ripe females for breeding needs.
Be prepared to invest in conditioning and winter simulation. I suspect that would adapt well to a compressed annual cycle?
What is purpose of experiment?
#5
Guest_DPFW_*
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Posted 20 July 2014 - 01:21 PM
I'm not sure if I can get it down to 45 F. I'm not sure how far down the temp can get. Thanks for the "target" to shoot for, if I should need to try that avenue. I had some luck yesterday catching fish in a colder-water stream and was able to find a few (not many, but a few) females that still seemed to be a bit swollen in the belly. I'm not getting my hopes up too high, but there might be a chance that I've got enough to work with (although I think you're right that the spawning season is very quickly coming to a close).
As for the experiment, itself... the purpose is to see how increases in salinity may effect the hatching and larval growth and development of the Blacknose Dace. It's a common fish around here (Mass.) and there are different projections of levels of salinity that the waters may eventually get to (due to salt runoff in winter, etc.). So, the experiment is going to "field test" the impacts of these projections and see how those projections may effect this common freshwater fish species (which might give us an idea of whether we need to start considering it's effects on their prey and predators, as well).
As for the experiment, itself... the purpose is to see how increases in salinity may effect the hatching and larval growth and development of the Blacknose Dace. It's a common fish around here (Mass.) and there are different projections of levels of salinity that the waters may eventually get to (due to salt runoff in winter, etc.). So, the experiment is going to "field test" the impacts of these projections and see how those projections may effect this common freshwater fish species (which might give us an idea of whether we need to start considering it's effects on their prey and predators, as well).
#6
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 20 July 2014 - 02:16 PM
I like it. I have often wondered about the effects of road salting. If it has any impact, I bet it is rougher on aquatic vegetation than fishes directly. The loss of aquatic vegetation would go right up the food chain though. I always kept my aquariums pretty heavily salted. Plants did poorly, and so did most algae. Did not seem to hurt brown algae, but I suppose diatoms are quite a bit different.
#7
Guest_DPFW_*
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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:03 PM
Thanks! We'll see what happens. Some fish are really salt tolerant, others aren't. And it may vary across the life stages (maybe it effects eggs more than fry?). I guess we'll see what happens! (Assuming I can get these guys to spawn. lol)
#8
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:19 AM
An abundant supply of live mosquito larvae and blackworms (Lumbriculus) can do amazing things in terms of extending breeding season beyond the "normal" range. Some shiners and dace will breed any time of year in captivity with enough live food and water changes, although I dont know about blacknose dace. In small streams in urban and suburban areas, I suspect that hydrant flushing (with chlorine, chloramine) during low streamflow periods in warmer weather may be more damaging that road salt runoff in winter.
#9
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Posted 23 July 2014 - 11:49 AM
I hadn't thought that the food being live would make a difference. I've been giving them frozen brine shrimp and blood worms (with a little bit of flake food mixed in). Maybe I'll try the live food. Thanks!
As for the runoff... you might be right. Chlorine/chloramine are very damaging. However, I know that freshwater systems ARE increasing in (overall) salinity in different places across the globe, so that's what initially got me thinking about this project. Maybe the results will be that the Dace can handle any of the projected levels and that would be interesting. I haven't thought too much about chlorine/chloramine, so maybe that's something worth thinking about in the future...
As for the runoff... you might be right. Chlorine/chloramine are very damaging. However, I know that freshwater systems ARE increasing in (overall) salinity in different places across the globe, so that's what initially got me thinking about this project. Maybe the results will be that the Dace can handle any of the projected levels and that would be interesting. I haven't thought too much about chlorine/chloramine, so maybe that's something worth thinking about in the future...
#12
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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:30 AM
I never knew that live would make a difference. I knew some fish were "picky" and only eat live, but not that it mattered for "non-picky" species. I'll see if I can track down some live blackworms or live mosquito larvae. Thanks!
#13
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:54 AM
That's just the sort of useful info you'll get from aquarium hobbyists and aquaculturists that you won't find in the scientific literature. Another is how to field-identify similar species of live fish, where pharyngeal teeth and gill raker examination is not an option. There are ID features that work on live fish that you won't find in ID keys in books, since they fade on preserved fish. Oh the joys of NANFA ... welcome.
#14
Guest_Stickbow_*
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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:54 PM
I have a bucket of mosquito larva you can come and harvest from if you need to...my wife would love for you to take it away. She'd probably like you to take some Anaxyrus americanus (formerly Bufo americanus) with you when you leave.
But seriously...the easiest way to get food for natives in the summer is to put a couple of buckets out in the yard. If you can start them with tank water or even better "green water", you are ahead of the game. In a few days under optimal conditions, you can start to harvest Anopheles , Aedes, Culex, Culiseta, Haemagogus or Ochlerotatus ..or as we call 'em Skeeters. The problem is they aren't all that consistent, so blackworms, grindal worms, etc. are easier to keep around.
(edited to add) ... and you can't really have any of our toads. I like having them around.
But seriously...the easiest way to get food for natives in the summer is to put a couple of buckets out in the yard. If you can start them with tank water or even better "green water", you are ahead of the game. In a few days under optimal conditions, you can start to harvest Anopheles , Aedes, Culex, Culiseta, Haemagogus or Ochlerotatus ..or as we call 'em Skeeters. The problem is they aren't all that consistent, so blackworms, grindal worms, etc. are easier to keep around.
(edited to add) ... and you can't really have any of our toads. I like having them around.
#15
Guest_mikez_*
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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:08 PM
Intersting topic. I'm in Mass and grew up keeping BN dace and spent many hours observing them in the wild. You made me realize I know very little about breeding them. I can't imagine them breeding in pairs only 'cause I never see less than a school. They don't seem the individual type.
Regarding chlorine in drinking water, most water depts. that have high chlorine use a neutralizer, sodium bisulfate I think when they flush. Can't remember if it's state or local law or just ethical guide line but I've flushed hydrants myself with the neutralizer.
DPFW, where in Ma are you and what is your job that lets you study dace?
Regarding chlorine in drinking water, most water depts. that have high chlorine use a neutralizer, sodium bisulfate I think when they flush. Can't remember if it's state or local law or just ethical guide line but I've flushed hydrants myself with the neutralizer.
DPFW, where in Ma are you and what is your job that lets you study dace?
#16
Guest_exasperatus2002_*
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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:41 PM
Mine only would breed after a drop in temperature. After I had a power outrage for 5 days and the tank drooped to 55*f. They spawned over the sand, then went back looking to eat their eggs.
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#17
Guest_DPFW_*
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Posted 03 August 2014 - 10:24 AM
exasperatus- that's interesting. I'll keep that in the back of my head when I try this again next year (unforunately, for logistical reasons I need to suspend the project until next year).
mikez- I teach Biology at Fitchburg State University. I just started here and Dace are really abundant, so they seemed like a good system to try this project on.
mikez- I teach Biology at Fitchburg State University. I just started here and Dace are really abundant, so they seemed like a good system to try this project on.
#18
Guest_mikez_*
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Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:23 PM
Cool. I'm just a bit east of you, on the same Nashua river as you.
Very cool history of recovery on that river in Fitchburg. BND must be very common in the river and tribs.
Now you got a year to study up and observe in the wild. Won't have to travel far.
My bet is kept well fed, you could get 'em going just by adding powerheads to increase flow, give a pile of stones, do a water change, and they do the rest
Very cool history of recovery on that river in Fitchburg. BND must be very common in the river and tribs.
Now you got a year to study up and observe in the wild. Won't have to travel far.
My bet is kept well fed, you could get 'em going just by adding powerheads to increase flow, give a pile of stones, do a water change, and they do the rest
#19
Guest_DPFW_*
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Posted 03 August 2014 - 08:33 PM
That's cool that we're close. If you ever want to meet up to go sampling, let me know. I've got the permits to work in that area. And I'm still learning how to ID the Mass. fish, so I could use an expert to teach me a bit (I'm a lot better than I was even at the beginning of this summer).
And yes, I definitely have plenty of time to observe and read up on the dace. It'll help a lot. I'm optimistic that if I can just get to them earlier next year, I'll have much better luck (I wasn't able to even try this year until July).
Here's something interesting that I found... I had read a paper that hypothesized that BND might only spawn in a single year in the wild. They might spawn multiple times in a season, but they only last for one full season. I'm starting to think this might be true. For the past 1-2 weeks, I have seen tons of babies but have not caught any adults. I went back to the place where I used to catch tons of adults very easily back in late June and now there's not a single adult around!
And yes, I definitely have plenty of time to observe and read up on the dace. It'll help a lot. I'm optimistic that if I can just get to them earlier next year, I'll have much better luck (I wasn't able to even try this year until July).
Here's something interesting that I found... I had read a paper that hypothesized that BND might only spawn in a single year in the wild. They might spawn multiple times in a season, but they only last for one full season. I'm starting to think this might be true. For the past 1-2 weeks, I have seen tons of babies but have not caught any adults. I went back to the place where I used to catch tons of adults very easily back in late June and now there's not a single adult around!
#20
Guest_mikez_*
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Posted 03 August 2014 - 09:33 PM
I'm no expert but I know most of the stuff in our area and where to find a lot of it. I don't typically sample per say but I do fish and explore and turn my 8 year old loose with a net. If there's a species or habitat you're interested in, let me know. I don't believe all BND last only a year. Larger adults may move but they're around. I could see them adapting to short life span in intermittent streams.
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