Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

Thoughts on Chubs

Started by Guest_FirstChAoS_* , Sep 29 2014 11:43 AM

Reply to this topic

9 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

Guests

Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:43 AM

Lately my thoughts have turned to chubs and they may become my next years fish project assuming I do not lose interest over the winter or get distracted. (My amazement at fish videos at the NC convention made me put my goals of "continue to seek every fish in the state" (A goal recently accomplished by another group) and "see a sturgeon" on hold. Testing my SeaLife's video functions became my new goal).

This attention is a cumulation of a few things.

First was after seeing chub nests at the NC convention I decided to walk along some spots where I often see small fallfish and seek nests. These areas tend to be silty though and not suitable for nesting mounds.

This had got me thinking. Since fallfish are nest mound builders (makers of the largest nests in North America if I remember right). Why have I not seen a nest? The other day I looked off one of the few bridges I did not fish at and saw two potential nests but not definate. Which got me thinking, how long does it take for water flow to destroy a chub nest.

I also got to thinking why chub nests are so infrequent here. Their should be one nest per two chubs? Do they need to grow to a certain size to nest? If so the only place I regularly see large fallfish is in downtown Winchester (oddly the same place I seen ones with breeding tubercals). I found this stretch inaccessable, but a friend recently told me of a fisherman access behind a building. if it is an easy way into the water I may have a way to look for them. This also got me wondering if the entire rivers chub population is based around one small stretch of water.

The second thing was on reading on fish vocalizations in Freshwater Fishes of North America I read how Hudson river was full of fish with unknown calls. I got to thinking of fish I heard audible calls from. Bullheads and Fallfish. While my local waterways have 2 err 3 types of catfish (grumbles on gaining fish faster than I can find them) chubs are easier as fallfish are everywhere and I only know of one or two places with creek chubs and am too far south for lake chub in my state. If I could afford a decent hydrophone it would be simple to set up an experiment to listen in on fallfish. Add a float, float the microphone through the school (assuming they don't all scatter seeing me on the bridge), and see if I hear them. Additional experiments could involve adding models of neutral (yellow perch) and aggressive (pickerel) species to the mix and see if their vocalizations react to other species. (alarm calls or such).

#2 Guest_fundulus_*

Guests

Posted 29 September 2014 - 03:40 PM

Which chubs? Maybe I'm too far South, but there are chubs and then there are chubs.

#3 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

Guests

Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:36 PM

Which chubs? Maybe I'm too far South, but there are chubs and then there are chubs.

No, I do not mean overweight minnows. As I said I will mainly focus on Fallfish Semotilus Corporalis as it is the most common chub in my area and has a few traits (known vocalizations when caught on hook and line, large nests) of interest.

#4 Guest_mikez_*

Guests

Posted 30 September 2014 - 09:14 AM

Fallfish are almost universially known as "chubs" by anglers. There are also creek chubs, and of course the confusingly named creek chub sucker in our area. I have kept many small fallfish and they are good captives but largemouthed and hungry. Doubt they'd be a viable captive breeding project for hobbiests. Great fun on lite tackle and more or less fill the niche of trout in urban streams.

Creek chub suckers I have tried at small sizes but always failed. I no longer take them and discourage anyone else from doing so.

Creek chubs stay in the western part of the state and I know very little about them.

FYI, on your comment on seeing a sturgeon, you might want to make a visit to the Popham beach area in Maine, the mouth of the Kennebec river, or anywhere in the lower river or even along the near by coast of Casco bay. Sturgeon are doing OK in the Kennebec, even better since the dams came down . They have the charming habit of spontaneously leaping six feet into the air like a 300 pound rocket. Sit on the beach long enough, you'll see a few.
For real fun, go kayaking at night among them. When they launch 30 feet from you and land close enough to splash you, you never forget it. :biggrin:

Edited by mikez, 30 September 2014 - 09:14 AM.

#5 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

Guests

Posted 30 September 2014 - 10:07 AM

Fallfish are almost universially known as "chubs" by anglers. There are also creek chubs, and of course the confusingly named creek chub sucker in our area. I have kept many small fallfish and they are good captives but largemouthed and hungry. Doubt they'd be a viable captive breeding project for hobbiests. Great fun on lite tackle and more or less fill the niche of trout in urban streams.

Creek chub suckers I have tried at small sizes but always failed. I no longer take them and discourage anyone else from doing so.

Creek chubs stay in the western part of the state and I know very little about them.

FYI, on your comment on seeing a sturgeon, you might want to make a visit to the Popham beach area in Maine, the mouth of the Kennebec river, or anywhere in the lower river or even along the near by coast of Casco bay. Sturgeon are doing OK in the Kennebec, even better since the dams came down . They have the charming habit of spontaneously leaping six feet into the air like a 300 pound rocket. Sit on the beach long enough, you'll see a few.
For real fun, go kayaking at night among them. When they launch 30 feet from you and land close enough to splash you, you never forget it.

Locally they call them dace, but technically they are chubs.

I do not intend to raise them, merely observe them nesting.

Oh, thanks for the tip on the Kennebec river

#6 Isaac Szabo

NANFA Member

Marble Falls, AR

Posted 08 October 2014 - 10:11 PM

I think you have a good goal to seek out fallfish mounds. With reports of the mounds being 5-6ft across and 3ft high, it would be an impressive sight. It sounds like the fallfish develop a nice breeding coloration as well. Observing fallfish on their mounds would be a great snorkeling experience. Now you just have to figure out when and where.

#7 Guest_gerald_*

Guests

Posted 09 October 2014 - 08:56 AM

Sounds fascinating but ... are you sure you want to hear what they're saying about you ? |;>)

If I could afford a decent hydrophone it would be simple to set up an experiment to listen in on fallfish. Add a float, float the microphone through the school (assuming they don't all scatter seeing me on the bridge), ...

#8 Guest_mikez_*

Guests

Posted 10 October 2014 - 09:11 AM

I have snorkeled over and around huge fallfish nests in the Nashua river while looking for arrowheads. Very strange looking, if I didn't know what they were, I'd have thought they were manmade, maybe by the Native Americans that lived on the banks. I did scrutinize the rock piles in case the fallfish added artifacts to the pile but no luck.
Didn't witness breeding while snorkeling but have landed many colored up male fallfish on hook and line. Indeed an impressive looking critter, though way too big for aquariums.

#9 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

Guests

Posted 10 October 2014 - 12:05 PM

Sounds fascinating but ... are you sure you want to hear what they're saying about you ? |;>)

Probably "here comes that fool with the dip net again, swim away when he gets near the shore, then gather downstream of his net to catch whatever he kicks up.

I have snorkeled over and around huge fallfish nests in the Nashua river while looking for arrowheads. Very strange looking, if I didn't know what they were, I'd have thought they were manmade, maybe by the Native Americans that lived on the banks. I did scrutinize the rock piles in case the fallfish added artifacts to the pile but no luck.
Didn't witness breeding while snorkeling but have landed many colored up male fallfish on hook and line. Indeed an impressive looking critter, though way too big for aquariums.

I caught several with tubercals before, but only one colored up. It was a shiny pinkish purple. However looking online they seem to have a range of colored up looks. (bronze, bronze with pink cheeks, bronze with pink cheeks and bellies, and all purple) I wonder why? In the latest AC I noticed other fish also seemed to have a range of coloring up looks. Do they gradually gain color until in full breeding mode or us their a range of individual variation in coloring.

As for too big for an aquarium, I agree. I wish I had a huge minnow tank (and room for one) for big minnows I could put fallfish, creek chubs, golden shiners, big common shiners, and maybe a few non locals like bluehead chubs in.

#10 littlen

NANFA Member

Washington, D.C.

Posted 10 October 2014 - 01:11 PM

Also keep in mind the possibility that the photographers might use some photo-editing software. But that aside, there is some variation between individuals throughout their range.

Nick L.