Hey, look at my first native tank. What would people recommend?
#1
Posted 23 November 2014 - 01:28 PM
I have finally set up a native tank in my garage. I think I would like to put a few darters in there, and I have become quite enamored with some of the shiners from recent snorkeling. There is only about 20 gallons of water in this tank. An artistic principal says not to raise the water line, but I'd kind of like to have more water. What do people think about the setup?
I don't know what to do about livestock. There are so many darters, and no aquarium guide to darter keeping. I guess the best question would be "are there any species to avoid, because they don't adapt well, or have other undesirable attributes?"
And thirdly, what about shiners? I love the local crescent shiners and rosyside dace. Is there enough water for a few darters and some shiners? Are shiners OK with a few, or better with a school? Are there species to prefer or avoid?
#2
Posted 23 November 2014 - 01:45 PM
Oh and I love therock btw.
#3
Posted 23 November 2014 - 02:05 PM
I would go with more water and the shiners. They really do add some motion and excitement to your tank. And if you have access to a place to get crescents, I think they would be great (and they will be fine with just a handfull, they do not need a huge school.
Some darters are harder to keep than others, but the main ones I personally would avoid are greensides (they need too many snails and get too big), tangerines (also too big), stuff like that. Other than that, you really have a bunch of good ones out your way.
#4
Posted 23 November 2014 - 03:50 PM
Gerald Pottern
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Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel
#5
Posted 23 November 2014 - 06:12 PM
al10,
The rocks came out of the Roanoke River, along with some really nice snails.
Initially, I was concerned about the broken top brace. It's a 25 year old 55 gal. I found at Goodwill.
Since I wanted to set up a riparium, I was OK with the top brace, but I can fix it. It appears unlikely that my immersed plants will grow tall, so technically I am free to increase the water volume. There is that pesky artistic consideration though.
Michael,
I thought you were eating a cookie there, but I see it's a sunfish selfie.
I've been thinking about our tank/pond conversation quite a bit, as well as the Chattahoochee River. I was fortunate to spend a day there with Meredith while on a trip, and surprised to see people catching trout right and left. Do you make it up there much?
You and Gerald are offering great advice.
I think I will proceed cautiously, and add shiners and more water in the future, maybe. That will give me more time to experiment with different plants.
I've only been out twice locally, but I am planning to make more time for it. So far I have only seen the Roanoke, Longfin, and a logperch. Without Derick Wheaton's help, I'd have never figured out the longfin, as its coloration was, well, lacking; and I mistook it for a stripeback.
The tree trunk is actually an algae turf scrubber - the return from my bucket filter, and another reason to keep the lower water level for now. There's also a pump behind the boulder providing additional current. I like the tree trunk idea though. I'll keep it in mind for the future.
#6
Posted 23 November 2014 - 07:40 PM
make sure the plants are well rooted and only in the back of the tank... then add a little more water (while still maintaining your aesthetic) and a power head and blast the water along the front of the tank and go logperch! I love those guys and with a couple of them and a handful of other local darters you would have a great snorkel experience without having to drive anywhere or even get wet!
then of course, you will need to get another tank for the shiners...!!!?!
#8
Posted 23 November 2014 - 10:02 PM
As for darters and shiners, you've already gotten good advice...
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#9
Posted 23 November 2014 - 11:23 PM
Mohawk-Hudson Watershed
Schenectady NY
#10
Posted 25 November 2014 - 06:32 AM
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#11
Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:34 AM
#12
Posted 25 November 2014 - 10:11 PM
Mike,
I had a 500 gph pump behind the boulder rock, and the constant stirring of sand and sediments, while reminiscent of snorkeling, created a permanent cloud. I responded by replacing all the sand with swimming pool filter sand, and dropping the pump down to 317 gph. Now I miss all the agitation. Maybe I will up the water volume a tad, and stick the 500 back in.
Sean,
Thanks for reminding me that I haven't been giving much thought to feeding. I was planning to share the same types of frozen foods that my tropicals love: bloodworms and artemia. Now I'm getting worried, because I'm pretty sure I'm not going to want to culture live foods, snails or otherwise. I don't think we have greensides near by. I'm hoping to snag a few Roanoke darters this Friday. Their diet consists mostly of insect larvae, but surely they're opportunistic enough to know a good frozen meal when they see one?
Matt,
I think there's some humor that went over my head, but it sounds quite interesting. A few caprodes would be nice if I can find them, and if I'm sure they're not P. rex. The whole riparian thing is just another experiment that is actually going OK so far. It's not as nice as all the pictures though because of condensation. I might need to install some wipers. If I pick them up from the junk yard, will the heater thing work to activate them?
Actually, the plants have been much more fun than I expected. Some of them are just weeds I plucked out of the yard and they are growing. I pulled some plants from a tiny wooded stream near my house, along the Appalachian Trail. It turns out they are watercress, and they are taking over. I felt a little uneasy about the non-natives, but then I read an article about the Watercress darter in Alabama, so I guess watercress has been around for awhile.
#14
Posted 29 December 2014 - 08:01 PM
Gerald Pottern
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Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel
#15
Posted 29 December 2014 - 11:06 PM
Gerald, if I remember correctly, we may have discussed at one time the differences between your roanoka down there and ours up here. It may be on the forum somewhere (or we discussed it person, it was a while back). I do believe that we had noticed that one tended to have more orange, while the other tended to have more blue/green. Maybe that's why they look a little unusual to you...
Derek Wheaton
On a mountain overlooking the North Fork Roanoke River on one side, the New River Valley on the other, and a few minutes away from the James River watershed...the good life...
Enchanting Ectotherms
My Personal Facebook (mostly fish related, if you'd like to add me)
#16
Posted 30 December 2014 - 09:14 AM
I really like those Roanokes... they look to me to be somewhat similar to my more local bronze darters. I have always thought them a handsome fish and wonder if they would turn that lovely brassy green that must be the breeding colors and is often shown in the photos.
Well done sir, keep em well fed.
#17
Posted 31 December 2014 - 11:53 AM
Kevin Wilson
#18
Posted 31 December 2014 - 01:15 PM
#19
Posted 01 March 2015 - 06:33 PM
Thanks for all the postivie feedback and advice.
Gerald, when Meredith and I initially collected a few smaller specimens, I thought they were Shield Darters from looking at pictures. I have since read that young ronaokas look a lot like shield darters. I have also learned from sampling with Derek, that I'm at the bottom of very steep learning curve on fish identification, and very glad to have the expertise available from NANFA folks.
Michael, those flakes are frozen mysis shrimps. I feed them daily alternating between grated frozen cocktail shrimps, and 1 of 3 frozen fish foods from the pet store: mysis shrimp, brine shrimp, and bloodworms. Their hunger slowed down when the tank temps dropped to around 40F or below, but they are still eating well. It is very gratifying to see them thriving. And yes, they are lovely, and a bit tangerine, actually. I find the riverweeds, while not as colorful, to also have very intricate patterning.
Kevin, I have been running a spot light on the end of the tank behind the screen for couple of months now. It has virtually turned that end of the tank into a gooey green mess, which is OK except it gets tangled up in the Koralia wavemaker. I am stopping the spot light now to see if the tank becomes more acceptable looking. Hopefully the plants will pick up as the temps climb. I have java moss that has overwintered. It seems to enjoy growing emersed. The watercress went wild at first, but has died back slightly. I hope it will revive with warmth. Even my emersed unidentified garden weeds are still alive.
NotCousteau, I am running the 850 GPH Koralia in a half filled 55 gallon tank, in addition to a 526 GPH pump to my overhead filter which I call a bucket filter, although I see many refer to it by the oxymoron "overhead sump." I turn off the wavemaker for a few minutes during feeding. When they lose interest in the food and I turn the wavemaker back on, the leftovers swirl around, often raising more interest by the fishes.
My darters usually hang out in "the jungle" mass of plants at the slow end, but are not shy to come out at feeding time. They occasionally mill about, as there is enough rock structure to create eddies and hiding places from the current. This seems most like what I have witnessed snorkeling.
I am in the process of replacing the 526 GPH pump with a 320 GPH external pump for lower heat generation and greater heat dissipation.
Hey, I have accumulated several more tanks that I am setting up. Are there any suggestions on how to stock them? I would be interested in some breeding if I can find the economics to support it. What I mean by economic feasibility is not necessarily profit, but that there must be demand for the product. I sure don't want to raise a bunch of fishes that nobody wants. I've done that, and it makes me feel bad.
#20
Posted 02 March 2015 - 05:28 PM
I'd guess tank-bred P. roanoka might be in demand. It's one of the more colorful small Percina sp that is also pretty heat-tolerant. I catch them in streams around Raleigh that get up to 82-85 F in mid-late summer. You might check with our native fish vendors (BrianZ, BrianT, Jonah) if they'd be interested in buying your extras. Also check on whether selling tank-bred native fish requires any permit in VA. Enneacanthus, Fundulus, Lucania, Chrosomus, Cyprinella pyrrhomelas, and the "Hydrophlox" group of Notropis are some others to consider -- should be easy to find homes for extras.
Gerald Pottern
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Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel
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