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Redline darter (Etheostoma rufilineatus) fry...


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#1 Ken

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 12:46 AM

Last night I saw one fry, this morning I saw two. Here is what I saw tonight:

 

   


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#2 mattknepley

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 05:42 AM

Yeah!

Somewhere Nick Little is shedding tears of joy! :)
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#3 littlen

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 06:16 AM

Ken, are the E. rufilineatum (I think you remember when they used to be Poecilichthys rufilineatus) fry able to take artemia nuplii as a first food item?  How long after hatch do they settle?


Nick L.

#4 littlen

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 06:17 AM

Matt----I've already climbed up the walls, twice.  In case you didn't know, Redline fry > any puppy ever.


Nick L.

#5 gerald

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 09:53 AM

Just out of curiosity, which darter groups have a pelagic stage vs immediate bottom dwellers?  I know the Percina spp are mostly (all?) pelagic as newborns, and the Johnny group and fantail group I think are mostly benthic.  What about the others?  Do all Nothonotus have a pelagic stage like Ken's rufie puppies?  Does larval behavior follow taxonomic groups, or are benthic and pelagic fry widely scattered among many darter groups?


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Hangin' on the Neuse
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#6 Ken

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 04:44 PM

Nick, I haven't tried BS yet. I have been giving them various worms (Walter, Micro and Banana). I also have put in some golden pearls for a couple that look a bit larger. Honestly, I try to stay away from BS to avoid issues with hydra.

 

Gerald, others I would include Rainbow, Orangethroat in the benthic group as newborns.


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#7 Ken

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 10:30 PM

I guess I really didn't answer your question Nick. I think that if they couldn't take bs it wouldn't be very long before they could. As for your question about settling do you mean become more benthic? Honestly, even "palegic" darter fry seem to settle if only for short periods unless they're feeding or hunting. There have been times I thought I might have lost fry until I added food and they'd swim up to go after it.    


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#8 littlen

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 07:23 AM

I guess in your video, the fry were feeding?  I assumed they were pelagic and hadn't settled yet.

Do you prefer one of the worms over the other?  Or do you use all 3 for variety?


Nick L.

#9 Ken

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 10:11 AM

Yes they are feeding in the video. There are a couple that are a bit larger that I hadn't noticed before. Because of the size differences I add worms of different sizes. It's hard at times to determine which fry are capable of consuming what size food. And as important, to make sure when they are able to eat larger food that they are getting larger foods so they don't starve.


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#10 littlen

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 10:22 AM

Do you feed after the lights go out?  It is dark in your video.  Sorry for for the 1,001 questions.  I have a *small* thing for these guys.


Nick L.

#11 Ken

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 12:23 PM

No problem. Actually, I feed fry as many times a day as I can. ( I spend my weekdays fixing cars, rebuilding/modifying engines, etc...) That day I happened to get a later start on the feedings and the lights had gone out just prior to taking the video... bad timing. So I figured I'd see if it would be easier to capture them with a flashlight on them and it worked, so I posted it. I had tried to take a video of the Percina roanoke fry just before the lights went out but they didn't show up at all because of too many scratches and too miuch algae on the glass. I was going to go back and try to see if I could capture them with the lights off but was too excited about the Redline fry.... No problem about the questions. I'll try and help as much as I can. 


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#12 littlen

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 01:29 PM

I think I recall from another thread some time ago that your big trigger for spawning is photoperiod manipulation.  Would you mind giving a quick synopsis of that?  I realize you have your system chilled, too, which is probably an added bonus.

I recently picked up some ripe female Redlines as my lone mature female is getting all the boys attention.  My tank gets great seasonal ambient lighting from a very large bay window, but I don't think it's quite enough.  I do have 2, Kessil a360w LEDs to put on with a controller so I can put on a fancy light show---which is probably way more than I need.  Sadly, my old chiller probably has a tiny pinhole leak and cannot hold a charge for too long.  So I'm having to keep the tank 68-70 until the new one comes in.

 

Also, what kind of growth rate do you see on them?  I watched your video of the 5 wk old Turquoise darters.  They look to be a good, 1/2"?


Nick L.

#13 Ken

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 09:47 PM

Nick, according to my records I started reducing the light cycle by two hours on 11/2, and another two hours 11/26. I then started increasing the light cycle 3/1 by two hours and again on 3/15. As of today the lights are on 15 hours per day. By the way temps also increased to 50 degree point on 3/11, and only dropped to 49 fours times the week of 3/24-3/29.

 

Regarding lights, I don't place as much importance on brightness over my fish which is one of the reasons why I have a difficult time spotting fry sometimes. The only exceptions would be Greenside and Iowa darter tanks that require plants for spawning purposes.

 

Yes I'd guess the Turquoise are pushing 1/2" now. Honestly growth rates vary, not only between species but even down to individuals depending on how much food they are getting vs. their siblings. Next week I'll be posting a video of this season's f1 Headwater darter fry. I first spotted them in their tank @ 3weeks ago. I suspect a number of them were in their tank a while prior to spotting them as many of them are also eating bloodworms.

 

BTW: many of the redline fry are now eating frozen rotifers.


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#14 littlen

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 05:58 AM

Let me see if I understand your lighting cycle.

15 hours simulates the longest amount of time the lights are ever on during your breeding season.  So on 11/2, you reduced it to 13 hours a day, and on 11/26, 11 hours a day.  They stayed at 11 hours until 3/1 where they went back to 13hrs, and on 3/15 back up to 15?  Makes sense if I am reiterating you correctly.

 

Temps are fairly constant, with 50 being the max that you increase it to in March.  (I think I'm going to pick up a 1/2HP Aqualogic.  What chiller do you have running on your system?  How many total gallons?)

Fascinating stuff.  Thanks Ken.


Nick L.

#15 centrarchid

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 08:41 AM

Larvae in water column, even of normally benthic oriented species, can be a container effect issue.


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#16 Ken

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 10:45 PM

Yes Nick, you're correct on the light cycle numbers. Actually, the max. temp in March was 55.3 the last day of March. Temps fluctuated within 6 degrees (four days @ 49) from 3/11 to the end of the month. Previous to 3/11 temps ranged from 43.2 on 3/1 to 49.1 on 3/10.

 

Actually, the chiller I use is way undersized. It is an Arctica 1/10 hp. To compensate I have plumbed the lines so that the water exiting the chiller go back and reconnect between the filter and pump that feeds the system. It still runs constantly and has for 3+ yrs. I have been trying to talk the wife into letting me get a 1 hp which still wouldn't be enough but much better. My system, I would estimate to hold @ 800 gals. It's difficult to determine because I don't have any of the tanks topped. I try to run them @ 3/4 full to allow for higher current and reduce risk of jumping.

 

Another note: I also increased water flow by 1/3 on the riffle tanks on 3/11.   


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#17 littlen

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Posted 15 May 2015 - 06:24 AM

I have to know your secret!......how do you keep ~800g chilled to 50 or below using a 1/3hp chiller?  I kind of get what you're saying about looping the returning water back to the filter and pump, but I'm still amazed that 800g can be maintained at such a low temperature.   My brain is making up excused that you live in Greenland, or your basement is 300' below the surface and is naturally, very cool! :)


Have you seen a significant effect with the increased water flow?  Will some species not breed with the reduced flow?   Any reference points you can give (such as gph) when you say 'increased flow'?  Or just simply turning it up, duplicating rising water levels triggers spawning behaviors?


Nick L.

#18 Ken

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Posted 15 May 2015 - 09:30 AM

Nick, there's no secret. When my brother and I remodeled this portion of the basement we did it with this very purpose in mind. Inner walls and the ceiling are insulated. With the use of an exhaust fan and a small window nature helps with getting the temps low.... ;)

 

The reason I manipulate water flow is to mimic what occurs in nature. Spring rains and snow melt = increased flow. Does it trigger spawning? I can't say it does or doesn't since I have other manipulations with lights and temps. It obviously doesn't hurt.


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#19 Ken

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Posted 15 May 2015 - 11:11 AM

Nick I neeed to make a correction. When I read your post and then reread mine I realized the total gals was off by quite a bit. That's what I get for posting when I am tired. I actually am only running @ 650 gals, not theh 800 previously posted.


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#20 Ken

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 09:32 PM

Here's an updated video that I actually took a couple days ago. Had to wait until I could upload it......

 

 


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