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What are your thoughts on Common Carp in America?


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#21 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 01:31 PM

I do not think they taste too bad. The only other carp I have tried is grass carp, and it is very good. Difficult to clean though.


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#22 butch

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 08:52 PM

I do not think they taste too bad. The only other carp I have tried is grass carp, and it is very good. Difficult to clean though.

if they're good to eat, then why everyone isn't out to catching and eat these common carps.

#23 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 06:41 AM

I did not say good Butch. I said not too bad. Grass carp however are pretty darn good. There are people from certain regions and cultures in the country that do commonly target common carp as a food fish. Same with gar and bowfin. Acquired taste I am sure. Try smoking the common carp. Smoking makes almost anything edible.

 

Gerald. I doubt that common carp silt up fish nests any more than native suckers, but one belongs here, the other was introduced my man in his infinite wisdom. So there is bound to be some bias.


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#24 mattknepley

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 09:08 AM

Just to play Carp's Advocate, and muddy the waters some more...

I think Matt D's very last statement is telling;

"Gerald. I doubt that common carp silt up fish nests any more than native suckers, but one belongs here, the other was introduced my man in his infinite wisdom. So there is bound to be some bias."

Long before people got to NA, and even after, different species were moving in and taking over, or being extirpated or extinctorized. (yes, it's a word. To me, anyway)All on their own. No human cause. Fast-forward a couple centuries, and we want things static. Static to our own individual definition of what "native" is. The only acceptable change, to us, is change that reestablishes or protects our unique definition of "native". What takes us back to pre-people-time. For most of us in NA, this doesn't include common carp. It can be kind of bigoted.

I am not being accusatory, merely introspective. I have my own biased definition of native. And it is incredibly subjective; I lump European honeybees in as "naturalized citizens" because I love honey and deem them as beneficial to the native wildflowers I enjoy so much, but I'll squish a Japanese Beetle (an absolutely gorgeous insect if you look at it) because it eats my roses. Eurasian Doves I'll enjoy because they don't seem to mess up much, but I shut down my own bluebird boxes if House Sparrows move into them. Look at the turmoil the resurgence of Coyote populations is stirring up. Now on to fish: I enjoy fishing for many not-native-to-my-watershed-but-native-to-NA fish (trouts, basses), yet loathe most of the exotics making their homes in the US. The difference? Some I like for selfish reasons, others I dislike for selfish reasons. Even my "big picture" management thoughts boil down this way. For me, I'm willing to consider as some species as "assimilated", others need to be irradicated. I am very biased, and my hostilities really need to be addressed towards any human activities that upset that bias, not the animals themselves.

The first 3/4 of the Irish film "An Everlasting Piece" is hysterical; the last 1/4 very political. It's about the relationship of two Irish partners in a wig manufacturing business. One is Catholic, Republican Irish, "original Irish" (who are largely Celts from Central/Eastern Europe and Nordic in heritage) while the other is a Protestant Scots-Irish from Northern Ireland. During one of the "poignant" parts of the movie, the Catholic says to the Protestant, in effect, "this is my country, my family is from the original inhabitants of the island". To which the Protestant replies, in effect, "friggin' A, my family's been here three hundred years, when do we get to call ourselves native?!"
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#25 butch

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 10:31 AM

I did not say good Butch. I said not too bad. Grass carp however are pretty darn good. There are people from certain regions and cultures in the country that do commonly target common carp as a food fish. Same with gar and bowfin. Acquired taste I am sure. Try smoking the common carp. Smoking makes almost anything edible.
 
Gerald. I doubt that common carp silt up fish nests any more than native suckers, but one belongs here, the other was introduced my man in his infinite wisdom. So there is bound to be some bias.

Native suckers didn't silt up fish nests but I've seen common carps regularly visiting the sunfish nest colonies.

Also I tried smoked common carps, fed all smoked carps to the dogs.

#26 Moontanman

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 12:32 PM

Lets be real, introducing non native animals to new areas is pretty much what humans do... From domesticated animals that go feral to actually introducing animals for sport and just because we like them. It's really only in recent decades this has been touted as a problem. 

 

If I owned a lake that had carp I would probably try to eliminate them, of course you have to consider this is coming from some one who has in the past suggested that certain fish that are endangered in their natural habitat be introduced to NA waters to save them  

 

http://www.fishbase.org/summary/8764 

http://www.digimorph...chus_kaufmanni/

https://en.wikipedia...nese_paddlefish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiji

 

Too late for the last two! 

 

Seriously, humans have always been bad about spreading animals outside their natural habitat, sometimes it's harmful to the natives sometimes not. 

 

Peacock bass being introduced in florida is a good example of the Government doing this but some escapes are accidental and some are on purpose by private citizens.  

 

Carp are here to stay, the horse left the barn a long time ago... 


Michael

Life is the poetry of the universe
Love is the poetry of life

#27 fundulus

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 07:30 PM

Carp are a luxury item in Europe, but they're raised in special pools and cisterns in clean water with quality food. It's pretty good, if you're in Germany or the Czech Republic, etc.
Bruce Stallsmith, Huntsville, Alabama, US of A

#28 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 10:11 PM

Native suckers didn't silt up fish nests but I've seen common carps regularly visiting the sunfish nest colonies.

Also I tried smoked common carps, fed all smoked carps to the dogs.

Then you are doing it wrong. Granted it is not walleye or bluegill out of cold water, but really it is not dog food.


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#29 don212

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 09:05 AM

i agree with matt, it really is about people, we need to be cautious about what we introduce, or what we remove, if it isn't causing drastic harm, don't take drastic actions. if something has been around for 200 years , won't completely removing it likely have unintended consequences? 



#30 butch

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:33 AM

Then you are doing it wrong. Granted it is not walleye or bluegill out of cold water, but really it is not dog food.

I like how you made assumptions that I doing it wrong, and even if I did it right, it'll still tastes horrible. It is not uncommon for people that kept carps to feeding them to their dogs.

#31 butch

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:35 AM

i agree with matt, it really is about people, we need to be cautious about what we introduce, or what we remove, if it isn't causing drastic harm, don't take drastic actions. if something has been around for 200 years , won't completely removing it likely have unintended consequences? 

It will be more positive consequences IMO.

#32 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 12:12 PM

Back to the point that Brian was trying to make... just removing the fish is only half the problem... and maybe not even half... the real problem is restoring the habitat.  Habitat is not as easy to show in the internet or get people excited about, but keeping the waterway clean is certainly the bigger challenge and will have a bigger impact on the fish. Maybe even have a bigger impact on the fish community.  I think there is some evidence to show that cleaner rivers have fewer carp... in part because the natives already fill all the niches.  Degraded waterways offer invasives a foothold ("finhold" just sounded too much like MattK). If you want fish that taste good, then keep the water clean.  Almost any fish from clean water tastes good.


Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#33 Moontanman

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 08:14 PM

When I lived in the mountains as a kid I would catch carp and eat them, they have a dark "mud" streak in the flesh down their side that follows the lateral line, cut that out and it improves the flavor quite a bit... 


Michael

Life is the poetry of the universe
Love is the poetry of life

#34 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 08:31 PM

Butch. The "your doing it wrong" was meant to come off jokingly as it is common in online meme's. Sorry it was not more clear.


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#35 BenCantrell

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 01:02 PM

Look to Asian cuisine for how to prepare common carp.  Soy sauce, ginger, chopped garlic, hot spices, etc.  It's not the sort of fish that you should bread and fry and expect to taste like walleye or perch.



#36 butch

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 08:23 PM

So basically use lot of flavors to drowning the strong carp flavor.

#37 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 06:54 AM

Butch. It sounds like carp in your area are a bigger problem than in a lot of places. Living in degraded habitats and quite possibly contributing to the degradation. This is probably a contributing factor to why they taste particularly bad. The few carp that I have eaten have been from flowing water that was of decent quality.

 

The Mad river here in Ohio is spring fed and does have carp. I have to wonder how one would taste if caught up near the headwaters.


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#38 butch

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 08:57 AM

Matt, it is bigger problem here, that's why we have carp removal programs. Some lakes are degraded, but some lakes are pristine water and holds overpopulation of carps. The lake conditions did improved after removed majority of carps and restored the habitats. Even out of clean water, they still tastes horrible.

#39 BenCantrell

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 09:00 AM

Even out of clean water, they still tastes horrible.

 

Some people have their mind made up before they even try things...



#40 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 09:37 AM

Well one of these days I will try carp out of cool clear water just for the heck of it. It will probably taste fine to my unrefined palate.


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