40 replies to this topic

[gzeiger]

Is the longear the only other fish in the tank? It's really exciting to hear he's eating. Keep in mind that the net, while it is protecting him, is itself a source of stress. Could you possibly put the longear in the net and give the warmouth the main portion of the tank? If you can get 50 shrimp I'd be confident enough of him finding one, and I second the suggestion of earthworms above. If you can get live blackworms, those are also very well received by any fish, and easy for him to catch.

[Betta132]

I have 5 young silver dollars, a Mexican molly (oversized molly, basically), a young angelfish named Elvis because https://www.youtube.com /watch?v=emjLXdsj6xA, and the longear. I could isolate the longear and angel, and I don't think the silvers will bother him. They're cowards. The molly ignores everything. Trouble is, I have to just about rip up the entire tank to catch either of the sunfish, their hiding spot is under a pile of sticks. I hate to mess the warmouth's home up, and the silver dollars are still acting traumatized from when I dug everything up to get at the warmouth. I'll try to sneakattack the longear with a small net. 

I can also put the shrimp food (pellets) in front of the cave that the warmouth likes to lurk in, but I don't know if it'll lure them close. They can probably feed on the algae and such. He doesn't seem to have quite enough energy to hunt, so I'm not sure if he'd be able to get at them unless they wandered past. 

I got about 35 shrimp, the LFS didn't have any more. There are probably 40 ghosts total, with something like 30 of those in with him right now. 

 

He doesn't seem to be able to see the shrimp too well, though. He only really seems to notice them when they move around. He's definitely not blind, but could his eyesight be suffering a bit because of the malnutrition? 

 

Anyone have a good blackworm source? I can only find a handful of sites selling them, and they're all quite expensive.

Edited by Betta132, 17 January 2016 - 10:57 PM.

[gzeiger]

I would consider the shipping prohibitive for mail order. I used to live near a shop that stocked them at quite reasonable prices (it was like $2 a tablespoon), but if you can't get them locally I wouldn't mess with it. Small mealworms might be worth a try too, and these are very commonly stocked at any pet store (often in the back - ask). Preferentially feed the soft white newly molted ones.

 

I'd leave the net situation alone with the additional information you just posted. Although silver dollars may not bother the warmouth, I'd be very surprised if they didn't kill the shrimp.

 

Brightly colored food such as red flake can make the shrimp more visible.

[Betta132]

I dropped a couple of test shrimp into the main tank, and you would have thought I'd thrown them in with starving piranha. The dollars are smallish but relentless. I'm pretty sure they'd rip all the shrimp apart just for fun. And I can't isolate them because they are incredibly nervous fish and would probably all die of panic attacks, and their panicking would set all the others off. I'd end up with an iso tank full of paranoia and a warmouth panicking because he thought something had eaten all the others.

 

I shifted the net around a bit so that the warmouth can hide in his cave. Also, I suspended the fake plant so that the shrimp can't hide under the base. He's still having a bit of trouble hunting, but I think he's figuring it out. He's just having a bit of trouble sneaking up on them, they see him coming and shoot away. 

 

I don't really have any brightly colored foods aside from Cyclop-Eeze. I'll see if there's any way I can feed that without it just falling through the net- maybe a tiny plate or the base of a plastic cup or something. It'd probably give the shrimp a color boost and a vitamin boost, so that's definitely a good option. 

[gzeiger]

It doesn't need to be that bright - the gut of a well-fed shrimp gives away its camouflage, that's all.

[Betta132]

He's doing a lot better. He's hunted down most of the shrimp, his stomach is constantly plump, and he's acting normally. He took a bite of frozen silverside, too, though he spit half of it back out- I think he didn't like the fact that there was a fin on it. I'll try some catfish or something else without fins tomorrow, but he was stalking a shrimp earlier, so he's probably about full.

He has these white patches on his sides, though. He's definitely doing them on purpose (they shift with the rest of his color), but I'm not certain why. I haven't seen him do this before. I think he may be trying to mimic a ghost shrimp in order to sneak up on them better- has anyone ever seen that sort of behavior in a warmouth? Or could it be that he ran into something and injured/burst the chromatophores, rendering him unable to use them properly in that one spot? The white is usually in the same spot, but it comes and goes far too fast to be bacterial or fungal, and he's not showing any discomfort. I've seen his "I have a bacterial infection" behavior, and he's not doing that.

[Michael Wolfe]

Sandwich has all kinds of white spots from time to time.  Any of them look like this? Some of those light blue looking spots are actually silvery spots reflecting the sky.

 

 warmouth sandwich.JPG   76.29KB   0 downloads

[Betta132]

It's more white areas than spots, usually splotches or crooked streaks, and they usually seem to be shaped about like shrimp- which is why I'm wondering if it's intentional. 

Your boy is gorgeous, by the way! How old is he? 

[Michael Wolfe]

Sandwich is a little over 5 years old... was not a sandwich on that day... more like a ritz cracker... now he is well larger than my hand and nearly twice as thick. 

[centrarchid]

Color changes can be rapid when trying to blend with background while hunting.  I need to see color pattern to have handle on what is being described.

[Betta132]

It's entirely gone now, so it evidently wasn't an injury or such. 

In other news, he's eating frozen foods again! A bit slowly, so I don't think I'll put him back into the main tank quite yet, but I'd say he's recovered. Nevertheless, should I keep providing ghost shrimp? That would let him have constant access to tasty food without me having to worry about decaying food and ammonia spikes. I can get something like 30 shrimp a batch, would that be a good plan? 

[gzeiger]

As long as you are feeding the shrimp well, they are pretty much the best thing. Keep offering frozen for the variety though for sure.

[centrarchid]

Try getting it to take some pellets formulated for carnivore cichlids.  That will punch some vitamins into the Warmouth. 

[Betta132]

He's plainly active enough to compete for food and he really seemed to want out of the net, so I let him out today. 

The first thing he did was beg for food until I chopped up a table shrimp and dropped it in. He then proceeded to eat about three-fourths of said shrimp (it was a smallish one, but still), before chasing the longear out of his cave. He's now sitting in his cave looking quite stuffed and highly pleased with himself. 

I've never gotten him to eat pellets before, but I'll give it a try. Maybe I can stuff them into bite-sized bits of frozen food. 

If he won't eat pellets, what are some good alternatives? 

[gzeiger]

Sunfish seem generally difficult to get started on pellets until there is another fish in the tank competing for them. Then they learn instantly.

[Michael Wolfe]

Sandwich was VERY visual... once he realized that I was dropping good food into the tank, he began to hit anything I dropped in... if it tasted good he kept it... if not, he spit it out.

 

Massivore pellets must taste good.  Or he was really hungry that day. But he's been hooked ever since.

[centrarchid]

Try soaking his usual shrimp fare in pellets for an hour or so before feeding.  Think marinating.  Then feed the shrimp with a little residual pellet adhering to it.  That will get him onto the the new flavor.  Then after a couple feedings like that trick him by putting in a soft shrimp tasting pellet first.  Key is fish needs to go after anything based on sight of you.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I could send you a little bit of Purina aquamax. I think it helps initiate a feeding response a bit more than carnivore pellets, though it is a bit messier  and unless you have excellent filtration you might use it sparingly. I would try centrarchids suggestion first first though.

[Betta132]

None of the sunfish will take pellets. They grab them, mouth them for a moment, and then spit them out. I've tried softening/scenting the pellets beforehand, but they still won't swallow. 

I'll try mixing the shrimp and pellets together, see if I can get him to take some. I can't try another brand of pellet, unfortunately, we can't have wheat in the house. Most fish foods, even the high-quality ones, have some wheat as a binder. 

[Matt DeLaVega]

None of the sunfish will take pellets. They grab them, mouth them for a moment, and then spit them out. I've tried softening/scenting the pellets beforehand, but they still won't swallow. 

I'll try mixing the shrimp and pellets together, see if I can get him to take some. I can't try another brand of pellet, unfortunately, we can't have wheat in the house. Most fish foods, even the high-quality ones, have some wheat as a binder. 

What did wheat ever do to you? Really, I am aware of deadly nut allergies, but have never heard of someone having gluten issues that bad. I doubt then than many commercial foods are going to work. Good luck.