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Esox ID

Started by Guest_Kanus_* , May 13 2007 12:54 PM

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#1 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 12:54 PM

**Here we go. Not too much difference in pattern at 4 inches. The redfin seems to have more continuity in the cream lateral band, but I'm not sure how definitive that is.

Posted Image

The chain pickerel does not often show bold, contrasting colors like the redfin seems to. Also an interesting sidenote: Those ever-moving pectoral fins of the redfin pickerel seem to be held still by the chain. While the redfin is stationary, the chain is stationary and motionless.

**These are my assumptions, I do not consider myself a Esox expert by any means, but I'm pretty sure of these IDs.

#2 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 01:45 PM

I just want to let you know this will be a touchy subject. The fish at question comes from a waterway that has both Esox americanus and Esox niger and according to Jenkins and Burkhead, will interbreed. I'm assuming you got this from our pickerel spot of course. Skipjack grew one of these questionable fish out and it was determined to more be redfin than chain, take that as you will.

Get a full profile shot of each and compare snout lengths.

#3 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 04:35 PM

Amazes me how similar Kanus's fish is to the one I kept. When was it collected? wonder if it was the same year class? Would point even more towards hybrid. Kanus, you should get some counts on this fish, and see if they are similar to mine.

#4 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 06:41 PM

Amazes me how similar Kanus's fish is to the one I kept. When was it collected? wonder if it was the same year class? Would point even more towards hybrid. Kanus, you should get some counts on this fish, and see if they are similar to mine.

Mine was caught early this spring at about an inch long. I raised him on brine shrimp to begin with and he's now nearing 4.5 inches and will take any size rosy I can throw at him.

#5 Guest_Mike_*

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 02:54 AM

My brother & I caught some pickerel in a bog in south west Michigan.
They were 10" - 10.5" long & they looked like Chain Pickerel.
We took photos of them and sent them to the Michigan DNR, the biologest said they were probly a form of grass pickerel, but would like to know if we got a big one.
I have caught a lot of grass pickerel from Indiana, and a lake less then 5 miles away from the bog and none of those looked like a chain pickerel.
Unfortunetly we lost acess to the bog (nasty devorce) so we have been unable to see if any larger fish were there.

Anyone ever hear of a form of grass pickerel that looks like an adult chain pickerel?

Mike

#6 Guest_edbihary_*

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 10:08 AM

We took photos of them...

Can you post one of these photos?

#7 Guest_Mike_*

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 10:54 PM

I will try, I will have to get some help. (not good with computers)
I will try tomarrow.

Mike

#8 Guest_Mike_*

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Posted 21 June 2007 - 01:56 AM

I will try, I will have to get some help. (not good with computers)
I will try tomarrow.

Mike

My brother will help me on Friday.
I will also post a Silver Pike I caught in MN, very neat. It is silver, but has some blue flakes.

#9 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 21 June 2007 - 02:49 PM

I just want to let you know this will be a touchy subject. The fish at question comes from a waterway that has both Esox americanus and Esox niger and according to Jenkins and Burkhead, will interbreed. I'm assuming you got this from our pickerel spot of course. Skipjack grew one of these questionable fish out and it was determined to more be redfin than chain, take that as you will.

Get a full profile shot of each and compare snout lengths.

Yeah, I am pretty sure that those are both redfins, unless there are some odd photo angles in play. And I still stand by my thinking that there are way fewer hybrids than people speculate there are. These both look like straight up redfins to me.

#10 Guest_Zephead4747_*

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Posted 21 June 2007 - 07:57 PM

My brother will help me on Friday.
I will also post a Silver Pike I caught in MN, very neat. It is silver, but has some blue flakes.

Silver Pike you say?

I call your bluff

#11 Guest_Mike_*

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 06:07 PM

Silver Pike you say?

I call your bluff

Here is a photo of the pickerel (grass pickerel or chain pickerel?). Can you help identify it?

Mike.

#12 Guest_Mike_*

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 06:12 PM

Here is a picture of the silver pike.

Mike

#13 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 06:49 PM

Mike,

The top fish is most certainly a Grass pickerel and I can't tell you what the second fish is, but Northern pike can often look rather drab while under 8". I've caught many that look rather "silver" at a small size.

#14 Guest_Mike_*

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 11:53 PM

Mike,

The top fish is most certainly a Grass pickerel and I can't tell you what the second fish is, but Northern pike can often look rather drab while under 8". I've caught many that look rather "silver" at a small size.

I don't know why the pickerel turned out to be so big. The pic is blurry, should I resend it?

I never saw grass pickerel with these markings, all the ones we ever caught eather looked like clear miniture musky with a line through the eye, or slightly striped. Never chain like markings.

What convenced you it was a grass pickerel?

Mike

#15 Guest_Mike_*

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 11:57 PM

Mike,

The top fish is most certainly a Grass pickerel and I can't tell you what the second fish is, but Northern pike can often look rather drab while under 8". I've caught many that look rather "silver" at a small size.

I am sure about the identy of the silver pike. If I remember right I caught two, one was 10.5 " & the other was 22" long.

#16 Guest_edbihary_*

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 12:46 PM

That top picture doesn't look like any grass pickerel I've ever seen. I think it's some other type of pike: chain pickerel, juvenile northern pike, juvenile muskellunge - take your pick, I don't know.

#17 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 01:14 PM

That top picture doesn't look like any grass pickerel I've ever seen. I think it's some other type of pike: chain pickerel, juvenile northern pike, juvenile muskellunge - take your pick, I don't know.

I guess I've just grown used to the looks of my local Grass pickerel.

This is a photo of a 6" fish. They tend to resemble Mike's first photo even more closely as they near the 10-12" size.

Edit: oops! I forgot to add the pike for reference

Edit #2

Both above fish are a similar size (roughly 6"). Both specimens were sampled from the Kankakee river or it's close tributaries. The E. lucius from Will county Illinois and the E. americanus from near the IN/IL state line.

#18 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 05:30 PM

I second grass pickerel. The length from eye to tip of snout, compared to eye to end of operculum, kind of rules out most other esox.

#19 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 02:22 AM

Young "typical" lucius don't have red fins, and even adults red color is mixed with black markings and yellowish orange. That is indeed a silver pike. Certainly a distinct morph of lucius, or something more.

I have caught silvers before, and they are so unlike a "regular" northern pike in appearance they stop you in your tracks. First thing that crosses your mind is musky, until you count pores on the underside of the jaw and look at scales on the cheek and gill cover.

Silvers have fascinated me since I seen my first. Information on them are lacking for sure. Unable to capture any for twenty years nearly.