41 replies to this topic

[doubleatraining]

Ready for an update?

 

Check out this growth!

 

 

I def need to add more blackworms into the tank before ordering the Elassoma. I see them sporadically but have no way to "count" how many are in the refugium with all the leaf litter.

 

 

I have multiple berried shrimp and the scud and snail population seems to be taking off!

 

 

You can see a few more blackworms below the dwarf sag here:

 

 

I do find it interesting that some of the native moss that was on the rocks didn't die when put in the tank, instead its growing up. You can see it here:

 

[Joshaeus]

Ready for an update?

 

Check out this growth!

 

 

I def need to add more blackworms into the tank before ordering the Elassoma. I see them sporadically but have no way to "count" how many are in the refugium with all the leaf litter.

 

 

I have multiple berried shrimp and the scud and snail population seems to be taking off!

 

 

You can see a few more blackworms below the dwarf sag here:

 

 

I do find it interesting that some of the native moss that was on the rocks didn't die when put in the tank, instead its growing up. You can see it here:

 

Nice! In view of the fact that many mosses grow on the ground, I would not be surprised that many seemingly terrestrial species can survive extended periods underwater.

[doubleatraining]

Growth in this tank is explosive! The cheap cull neo shrimg are breeding very well and I have multiple berried females. I FINALLY found some Elassoma Okatie and will be ordering them this week. I can't wait. Going to start with 3 males and 5 females. That gives me a spare male in case of death during shipment. I can also put him in a 5.5g with my H. Formosa if 3 males is too many in a 10g.

[Joshaeus]

Cool! I don't think I've seen E. okatie kept in an aquarium before, and it's been years since I have seen any for sale...where did you find them, out of curiosity?

[Joshaeus]

I can't believe I forgot this when making my previous post...what is your water change schedule on this tank? I was doing research on dwarf shrimp care and found that even Neocaridina keepers usually recommend only performing 10% water changes every few weeks because they find their shrimp sensitive to the regular fluctuations in water parameters inherent to water changes, and since your shrimp are clearly doing well and reproducing I was wondering what yours is.

[doubleatraining]

I can't believe I forgot this when making my previous post...what is your water change schedule on this tank? I was doing research on dwarf shrimp care and found that even Neocaridina keepers usually recommend only performing 10% water changes every few weeks because they find their shrimp sensitive to the regular fluctuations in water parameters inherent to water changes, and since your shrimp are clearly doing well and reproducing I was wondering what yours is.

I got them from Jonah's Aquarium. He only has a small amount so he hasn't advertised them. I can't wait to work with them.

 

Since I never add any fertilizer or anything to my water.....I NEVER change the water. I also have HEAVILY planted tanks that tend to filter themselves. I only top off with fresh water as needed. Don't come after me. LOL

[Joshaeus]

I got them from Jonah's Aquarium. He only has a small amount so he hasn't advertised them. I can't wait to work with them.

 

Since I never add any fertilizer or anything to my water.....I NEVER change the water. I also have HEAVILY planted tanks that tend to filter themselves. I only top off with fresh water as needed. Don't come after me. LOL

Ah...I've seen him advertise them before, but it's been a while. I've heard people do planted tanks that way...I've just wondered what they do about nutrients that are not added in useful quantities by fish waste, such as iron, magnesium, and in particular potassium.

[doubleatraining]

Ah...I've seen him advertise them before, but it's been a while. I've heard people do planted tanks that way...I've just wondered what they do about nutrients that are not added in useful quantities by fish waste, such as iron, magnesium, and in particular potassium.

I have potting soil under the sand to feed the plants without any supplements. My fish will arrive Thursday or Friday this week! I can't wait.

 

I've been making mosquito larva frozen disks to supplement them and all my other high maintenance fish over the winter.

[doubleatraining]

They are here!

 

Elassoma Okatie

 

3 males

5 females

 

Pretty sure them being in the bag might be the last time I see them. LOL Not really but it will take a while for them to look to me for food since they have SO much food already in this tank.

 

I need to do a heavy dwarf sag trim but want to wait a week or two to let them get settled in.

 

 

 

I floated them for a long time and very slowly added tank water to their bag. One male seemed especially excited about the new environment and started to color up!

 

 

I think I need to trim the moss wall down to something more reasonable. I'm not sure the variety of moss that I put on this wall but its by FAR the best I've ever done. It keeps trying to grow out of the water.

 

Edited by doubleatraining, 22 August 2020 - 01:01 PM.

[Joshaeus]

They are here!

 

Elassoma Okatie

 

3 males

5 females

 

Pretty sure them being in the bag might be the last time I see them. LOL Not really but it will take a while for them to look to me for food since they have SO much food already in this tank.

 

I need to do a heavy dwarf sag trim but want to wait a week or two to let them get settled in.

 

 

 

I floated them for a long time and very slowly added tank water to their bag. One male seemed especially excited about the new environment and started to color up!

 

 

I think I need to trim the moss wall down to something more reasonable. I'm not sure the variety of moss that I put on this wall but its by FAR the best I've ever done. It keeps trying to grow out of the water.

 

Cool! Glad they arrived in good shape.

[doubleatraining]

I was thinking that Id never see them in a tank this planted and this full of food.

They've already proved me wrong. While they are shy they aren't as quick to dart away as I was expecting. I'm hoping this is because they are so comfortable in this environment.

Young male coloring up came out to investigate this morning. He seemed to be looking for what is going to be HIS territory by pushing some neo shrimp around and then he got distracted by hunting scuds. Lol

 

Took these with my cell phone so quality isn't fantastic.

Full Tank Shot:

 

 

Okatie male coming out to explore and hunt:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Starting to see his iridescence here:

 

[doubleatraining]

I haven't seen any scuds in the main part of the tank since the Okatie have started establishing territories. I see them with lots of hunting behavior from across the room and they continue to seem very comfortable and fat. The males really seem to feed on small snails and I see them strike hard with a wiggle to try to get the snail out of the shell. Very fascinating behavior.

 

I finally got to see a female come out and explore!

 

 

 

Here is to hoping they start having fry soon. I think there are still copepods hiding in the java moss wall based on their hunting behavior all over the wall. I'm starting another culture in a gallon jar just to be safe. I've made sure to add food to the refugium to ensure the food is well fed. I am going to order more blackworms, they seemed to have been demolished very quickly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JackHaldane]

I've been planning to set up another pygmy tank for awhile and I'm going to copy a lot of what I see here, but I'm wondering if there's a way to combine filtration and refugium HMF-style.

Please keep us posted, I'm especially curious about how the elassoma interact with shrimp. I'm guessing adults are too big for them to eat, but they'll snack on shrimplets?

I've always wanted to mix elassoma and shrimp but I've seen lots of (mostly speculative) advice against. If you have some shrimp survive to adulthood and you also get pygmy fry then I'm definitely going to combine them.

[doubleatraining]

I've been planning to set up another pygmy tank for awhile and I'm going to copy a lot of what I see here, but I'm wondering if there's a way to combine filtration and refugium HMF-style.

Please keep us posted, I'm especially curious about how the elassoma interact with shrimp. I'm guessing adults are too big for them to eat, but they'll snack on shrimplets?

I've always wanted to mix elassoma and shrimp but I've seen lots of (mostly speculative) advice against. If you have some shrimp survive to adulthood and you also get pygmy fry then I'm definitely going to combine them.

I was nervous about too much filtration with the size and sensitivity of the Elassoma fry. I really like the soil based tank.

 

I bought a bunch of neo culls for this tank with the intention of them eating some of the shrimplets. The males like to "pop" some of the adult neos for encroaching into their territory. If they do end up eating the shrimplets then I'm ok and if they don't, I'm ok too. I wouldn't plan on having "good" shrimp in the tank with them. They are very serious hunters and with as fat as their bellies are they are gorging on the variety of food available in this tank.

[Michael Wolfe]

Yes, Im constantly impressed at what will fit in a fish. I will not being surprised when you show us a picture of an Elassoma with half an adult neo sticking out of its mouth.

[gymrat987654321]

This is a great thread. What is the longest you think this tank could be selfsufficent for without you needing to add or remove anything?

[doubleatraining]

This is a great thread. What is the longest you think this tank could be selfsufficent for without you needing to add or remove anything?

I'm not sure. I'm actually going to start another 10g tank with a refugium that is siliconed in to prevent the fish from getting behind it. That seems to be where mine want to hang out. I'll leave them in the current tank while the other one matures and hopefully I'll be able to find some fry when I move them to their new tank.

[gymrat987654321]

I'm not sure. I'm actually going to start another 10g tank with a refugium that is siliconed in to prevent the fish from getting behind it. That seems to be where mine want to hang out. I'll leave them in the current tank while the other one matures and hopefully I'll be able to find some fry when I move them to their new tank.

 

Thanks. The reason I ask is because I've been wanting to set up a tank for a while now, but I live alone and I travel a lot. Thought this might've been a good solution. 

[doubleatraining]

 

Thanks. The reason I ask is because I've been wanting to set up a tank for a while now, but I live alone and I travel a lot. Thought this might've been a good solution. 

I think it would be months if not even longer before any additional "food" would needed to be added into the refugium.

[doubleatraining]

Update time.

 

I removed the barrier in the original tank due to the gaping on the sides and failure.

 

I acquired a second 10g tank and used silicone to secure the divider into place. I have continued with the walstad design and have planted plenty of plants. I've already added scuds and snails. I'm going to be slowly adding more food stock again and in a few months I'll empty the other tank and move the Elassoma Okatie over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also found that they are breeding! The tank is so heavily planted that I rarely see them but I did get to see a juvenile the other day that I know wasn't from the original bunch.