Warmouth

Any breeding info on these fish?

Any breeding info on these fish?

If you breeding warmouth, yes I have. I know of only one document published by the Illinois Natural History Survey that reported on the warmouth's life history.

I bred them last year and had them for sale and I have adults in a breeding pool this year as well and should have them for sale later this summer if all goes well. I actually have one left from last years batch, pm me if you want it.

when was it hatched and how big is it now?

just curious

Does anyone know how to sex these fish?

Does anyone know how to sex these fish?

fishlver

I am looking at a tank of about 30 tank raised 1 year old warmouth 6 to 7 inches long and six ways to at least "guestimate" sex are apparent:

1) Males tend to have a have a larger ear tab with more red on it sort of like a redear.
2) Larger adult males have red spot at base of dorsal fin rays. Seem to display when trying to lead females to nest.
3) Males have greater contrast between light and dark spots on sides. Light spots of males reared in natural environment the spots can be yellow to reddish. Same spots on tank raised males appear silvery like pearls. The spots seem easier to see when looking at male from behind.
4) Females approaching ripeness tend to blanch, especially on the abdomen.
5) Look at abdomen. Sexually active / mature females have a larger urogenital opening behind the anus. Membrane (of female) often raised and clear. Male with smaller (than anus) tighter opening.
6) Squeeze em. Males with white stuff and females with yellow stuff that looks like cream of wheat to tiny eggs. First stuff on non-ripe females to come out looks like egg white.

Behavior of isolated males can also be used.

Very nice observations, I have seen all of these things as well but don't think I could have put them into words as well as centrarchid did, very well done.

Thanks a bunch. One more question: do they breed like sunfish, with the ditch in the substrate and protecting the eggs and fry?

Thanks a bunch. One more question: do they breed like sunfish, with the ditch in the substrate and protecting the eggs and fry?

Yes, territorial adult male will, when a ripe to nearly ripe female is present, dig a a shallow pit (ditch) like other sunfishes using his tail. The male also is the care giver once spawing takes place. A key diffference if your are going to spawn them in an aquarium is where courtship is more like the black basses. The male warmouth is less likely to damage the female in the more gentle and protracted pairing phase.

In nature territories relative to other sunfishes are usually a bit larger and usually in shallower water than all except green sunfish or the good old orangespotted. Are you planning on breeding them in an aquarium? I will be doing that soon and will be refreshed enough to give good pointers. Despite the larvae starting off small they are pretty easy to rear.

Yes, I am planning on breeding them in an aquarium. Will they breed in a 20? If not I have a 50 gallon tub if they can breed in that. What do I feed the fry? At what size are the sexes discernable and they are ready to breed? I'm planning on going fishing today and I'm going to try to catch some on rosy reds. If I use worms the only thing I come home with is a bunch of bluegill and bullheads. Do you know if you could get me an adult male and female? I was just wondering because it sounds like you've bred them before. The biggest ones I catch are 3-4 inchers, and I'm buying a 2" one from smbass sometime in the next week. The ones in my creek go back into the swampish pond which I can't get to.

P.S. Thanks for helping me out so much. This has got ot be my favorite fish, and I have no idea why...

During first week of feeding I use newly hatched brine, thereafter (until 21 days) I will use brine shrimp as old as 12 hours. Starting about 14 days introduce a small amount of a high quality feed for small fishes (I use Bio-Blend brand at home). If you get the American Currents, look at volume 33 (number 1) for the bantam sunfish article. Bantams and warmouth have very similar requirments for early rearing.

If your warmouth are like ours, they will seldom hang with the bluegill or bullheads. The larger warmouth will be in shallow water (4 to 8 inches) amidst heavy vegetation and around fallen logs. If the water is too deep or too open I tend to catch smaller warmouth and greensunfish. 90 % of warmouth I catch are by using crickets or night crawlers where I use my ultra-light like a cane pole. I dip the bait into little clearings amoung the vegetation. Warmouth move slowly but constantly thru tunnels in the vegetation capturing larger eats. Dip, and wriggle the bait, no bite next whole. Standing in one spot you can usually hit several holes. Repeat a given hole even if no bite previously. Also fish around the logs, especially the hollow ones. Warmouth like to hang in those little caves. I bet you will catch 6 inchers that way.

Missouri law as I understand it prevents me from exporting aquatic animals from the state unless thay are on the approved species list for aquaculture. This applies even to my tank reared stocks. My warmouth are also tied up in research through next year. Use your natives!

I have bred warmouth in aquariums and culture ponds numerous times.

The best fish, especially if female will be like those obtained from smbass.

Even small females produce more eggs than I need and I can rear thousands of the little buggers. When larvae leave the nest, cull out all but about 200. Better to rear a small number of high quality fry than a bunch of cannibles and runts. Sexes usually discernable at 3 inches but such animals seldom spawn unless they are the biggest animals present. The best size for breeding starts around 4 inches for females and five inches for males. Feeding is all about presentation.

A twenty will work but that will test the males gentleness. Do you have a ten gallon tank to house / condition female? Have ever used a partition within a tank?

Well, if needed, I have a 50 gallon tub that is 4 feet long if I need to use it instead. Or I could put the male in the 50 and put the female in the 20 or in a 100 gallon pond to condition her. The pond will have longears in it, but the ones I'm buying from smbass are only around the 2" range, so It will probably be a while. I am going to try to have an established population of rosy reds in the pond, so will the rosy red fry be good food for them? We also have a ton of mosquitos, dragonflies, and damselflies which will be laying eggs on the vegetation, so will the fry be able to eat the newly hatched insect larvae as a first food? How will I know when the female is ripe and the male is ready to breed?

Well, if needed, I have a 50 gallon tub that is 4 feet long if I need to use it instead. Or I could put the male in the 50 and put the female in the 20 or in a 100 gallon pond to condition her. The pond will have longears in it, but the ones I'm buying from smbass are only around the 2" range, so It will probably be a while. I am going to try to have an established population of rosy reds in the pond, so will the rosy red fry be good food for them? We also have a ton of mosquitos, dragonflies, and damselflies which will be laying eggs on the vegetation, so will the fry be able to eat the newly hatched insect larvae as a first food? How will I know when the female is ripe and the male is ready to breed?

Tub method easiest if it is outside. Female can be conditioned with male. Need lots of structure for female to avoid male. I prefer the two tanks method since I can see what is going as it helps with preparing to care for larvae.

I usually condition females in a mixed (sunfish) species setting where only females are present. In streams where I can see redspotted, central longear, redear and bluegill sunfishes the breeding size females seem to be in shoals of 2 to 5 individuals that move about good feeding sites. Shoals often more than one species. Males tend to be more restricted to areas around nesting area even when not on the nest.

Rosy red fry excellent but I have had 3.5 inch warmouth eat 2.5 inch wild type fathead minnows so your breeders might be at risk unless you have a couple hundred.


If rearing larvae outside I would not rely upon insect larvae / nymphs as food. Rather use a tub where you place some pond muck and freshwater (not chlorinated) into it. Then add some alfalfa pellets / meal and let the plankton bloom. With a little practice you can stock larvae into tub as zooplankton reach optimal size. Do not let the tub system get to old or plankton will be come too large or larvae consuming insects (dragonfly, damselfly, some beetles and some bugs) will rule.

Nearly ripe female will have a distended abdomen even recently fed. Urogential opening of ripe female will "pook out" somewhat like on female cichlids (I assume your have bred latter). Ripe females will also threaten male even if he is larger. Ready male will dig nest and will give a funky dance to entice female to nest. Isolating male from females for a few days, then adding ripe or nearly ripe female to his tank will stimulate a ready male to dig and dance. Dancing male will spend much os his time between the female and his nest. Male appearing to drive female to nest is likely an artifact of conefinement.

Ok. Thanks for all the info. You've been a big help. I'll try to catch some today so I can breed them.


Thanks
Steve

Ok. I just went fishing with rosy reds and caught a warmouth that I'm guessing is in the 4" range. According to what you (centrarchid) said, he is a male, because he has a sort of reddish tip on his "ear".

P.S. I put him in a 10g with convicts 1/2 his size...I had to take him out because they were kicking his butt.

Will they breed on gravel? Also, do they need plants, or just rocks and driftwood?

Ok. I just went fishing with rosy reds and caught a warmouth that I'm guessing is in the 4" range. According to what you (centrarchid) said, he is a male, because he has a sort of reddish tip on his "ear".

P.S. I put him in a 10g with convicts 1/2 his size...I had to take him out because they were kicking his butt


Will they breed on gravel? Also, do they need plants, or just rocks and driftwood?

Males have more red on the ear tab than a similar sized female although only males of the warmouth I keep have much red when they are 4 inches. I usually breed mine on pea-gravel or glass marbles. The latter make sound you can hear across the room when the male digs. I usually place the intended spawning substrate (gravel, marbles) in a five gallon bucket bottom. When the male feels the need to breed he will gravitate towards a raised circular depression. As for structure such as plants, rocks, driftwood........, it does not hurt and tends to shorten the amount of time the warmouth needs to acclimate to new conditions. Having some smaller feed trained sunfishes that the warmouth can woop will help its ego as well. Once the warmouth starts to perk up and feed, remove the smaller sunfishes.

Your warmouth likely major stressed from capture and transfer. Placing him with nasty convicts should be delayed until gets better. Convicts can be team players, warmouth is not.

Thanks. The 4 incher died But I went out this morning around 6:30 and caught 3 more warmouth. One is 6" and definately a male. One is 5 inches and the last is 3 1/2 I think. Do you think they would spawn on playsand? I don't have enough gravel to cover the bottom.

Thanks. The 4 incher died But I went out this morning around 6:30 and caught 3 more warmouth. One is 6" and definately a male. One is 5 inches and the last is 3 1/2 I think. Do you think they would spawn on playsand? I don't have enough gravel to cover the bottom.

fishlvr,

They will spawn on sand, muck, plant roots, astro-turk and even a bare tank bottom. The problem with sand, muck and bare tank bottom is that the male can accidently blast the kids from the nest if he swims from the nest to fast as when you scare him.


I strongly recommend the following for a prefabricated nest. I use it for my warmouth every time I need to generate a brood. See the very crappy image of a central longear sunfish (St. James River drainage, MO) on such a nest. Such a device makes it so you do not need as much substrate (rocks, gravel, sand and the like).

 prefabricated_nest_with_CLE.jpg   16.63KB   3 downloads


1) Cut bottom of bottom of five gallon bucket leaving a 2 inch cylinder above the bottom. The nest shown cut with high cylinder to allow screen beneath marbles.

2) Fill bucket bottom 1/2 to 2/3 full with pea-gravel / aquarium gravel, marbles or even limestone gravel from driveway. Even quartz gravel will work.

3) Place bucket in corner of tank. Up front if you want to see the action up close. My sires (males), regardless of species tend to prefer the prefabricated nest. Pumpkinseed seem to be a bit pickier but even they come around and put eggs where I want them.

4) Warmouth can be a bit shy at first so put some structure above the nest.

5) GIve the male one to two weeks to adjust, then add the fat lady and see if she sings.

I have noticed that on some warmouth there is a red spot on the rear base of the dorsal fin. Is this any indication of sex? Farmertodd has some pics in the NANFA gallery that display this red spot.