Why Does Everyone Hate Invasives?

How come everyone (as far as I know) here hates invasives and persecute them like Hitler? I mean, yeah, they do compete with natives, but they still look good in aquariums . I love the carp*, brown trout, silver carp, ruffe, snakeheads and so on in aquariums and as food. That DOESN'T mean I don't like natives though, especially sturgeon, burbot, lampreys, whitefish, gar, pike, bowfin, flathead catfish.

So, back to my main question, why does everyone hate invasives?




* only the carp in rivers, pond carp are filthy and dirty and taste bad. Carp are NATIVE to rivers, not ponds.

How come everyone (as far as I know) here hates invasives and persecute them like Hitler? I mean, yeah, they do compete with natives, but they still look good in aquariums . I love the carp*, brown trout, silver carp, ruffe, snakeheads and so on in aquariums and as food. That DOESN'T mean I don't like natives though, especially sturgeon, burbot, lampreys, whitefish, gar, pike, bowfin, flathead catfish.

So, back to my main question, why does everyone hate invasives?
* only the carp in rivers, pond carp are filthy and dirty and taste bad. Carp are NATIVE to rivers, not ponds.

One simple reason: they kill our natives by outcompeting and eating them, often making them extinct in the long run, if not very quickly. Many people like the above mentioned fish, and many of them DO look good, just not in our streams.

Carp are NOT native to America. They came from asia.

To fishlvr:

I know that they compete and kill natives. But why do people ENJOY killing them and leaving them on the bank to die (I am not necessarily talking about you, but other people). There are other ways of using them (eating them, keeping them in aquariums without releasing them) and more ethical ways of killing them other than stabbing them with knives. Such behaviour reminds me of what some salmon and halibut anglers do on the pacific coast when they catch a dogfish shark ( a native ).

Also, I understand how you might have misunderstood me, but I meant that in the carp's native habitat they are native to rivers, not ponds.

I don't really think anyone here kills non-natives for the fun of it. There are several posts that talk about uses for non-natives. I've heard that oscars taste better than sunfish.

Sorry. I thought you meant carp were native to here.

Call me what you wish but.. Invasive fish do not belong where they are invasive and exotics do not need to be here swimming in my water either. I will kill or remove everyone of them without prejudice and without thinking twice about it. The manner about which they are disposed of means little to me as long as it is quick and confirmed fatal. No one in this group runs around torturing animals slowly and painfully for fun.

This has nothing to do with love or hate for a species this has everything to do with preserving what little indigenous biological diversity we have left..

There are other ways of using them (eating them, keeping them in aquariums without releasing them) and more ethical ways of killing them other than stabbing them with knives. Such behaviour reminds me of what some salmon and halibut anglers do on the pacific coast when they catch a dogfish shark ( a native ).

There is no comparison here between removing Exotic and Invasive species and to "Bubba thinkin those dogfish are eaten the salmon"..One is perception of an individual groups attitude the other is proper management of an ecological threat.

It's good to know then that people here don't like to kill invasives for fun (I was misled by some posts into thinking that).
I was reading the topic "Carp" on this forum under "General Invasive and Exotic Discussion".

Again, it's good to know that those people are not having fun killing carp.

Again, it's good to know that those people are not having fun killing carp.

Yes, please file that all under "Youthful Exuberance"

Todd

Thank you Brook lamprey for clarifying. I did not mean to call you anything.



I have one more question though. What are mudpuppies and hellbenders?

Brooklampray has a very good point. No one here enjoys killing fish, but letting invasives kill our natives is worse than killing the invasives for fun IMO.

I have one more question though. What are mudpuppies and hellbenders?

Big salamanders. This is just a baby hellbender:

http://www.farmertod...506FrenchCreek/

Todd

You have misinterpreted some humor. The fish with the knife in it was already dead before the knife was inserted. See here:
http://forum.nanfa.o...h...post&p=2723

The photo was removed, because it was being misunderstood by some. Unfortunately, references to it remain. That can cause confusion. I'd like to see it re-posted, both to end the confusion, and because it was hilarious!

You have misinterpreted some humor. The fish with the knife in it was already dead. See here:
http://forum.nanfa.o...h...post&p=2723

The photo was removed, because it was being misunderstood by some. Unfortunately, references to it remain. That can cause confusion. I'd like to see it re-posted, both to end the confusion, and because it was hilarious!

I think that photo will remain in the hands of those who where there as they know the history surrounding it. It is too easily misconstrued to mean other things of which it has no relation to.

Those of us that where there and very well understand this issue know why that pic was taken and we cherish it in our own little sick way.

I have to admit how I feel about killing certain populations of invasive fishes and touch on the leatherman "incident".

On more than one occasion I've found invasives outside of their known distribution. In other cases I've found them outside of their known range but close enough to make me realize that I've found and area where they're expanding their stranglehold on our natives. In these instances, I think I actually enjoy killing them. The joy doesn't last long. I always feel pity for the fish since they're just scratching out and existence like myself. This is soon followed by anger directed at the thoughtlessness of people for bringing these animals here in the first place.

It's important to know the grass carp photographed is about 150 river miles from any other grass carp location that I know of. The leatherman was an artistic expression of the current state of our waters. A bit silly but artistic expression often is.

When it comes to invasives i feel the only answer starts and ends with the bottom of my boot. Give them the stomp. i agree with teleost that they are trying to have an existince somewhere but it is just unfortunate that they land in my seine. Unfortunatly my pleasure of the boot stomp comes from others careless release of fish in the wrong places. i just hope i can do my part to keep the fish that belong in certain areas there and that invasives wont decline their numbers.

North American Native Fishes


Sums it up, no?

So, back to my main question, why does everyone hate invasives?

I don't think that anyone here hates non-indigenous species per se. We just don't like them running amok in our waterways, where they create ecological problems and threaten native species. And as the name of the board implies, we like to support our native fish whenever we can, which occasionally entails thinning out the competition a bit.

I don't think that anyone here hates non-indigenous species per se. We just don't like them running amok in our waterways, where they create ecological problems and threaten native species. And as the name of the board implies, we like to support our native fish whenever we can, which occasionally entails thinning out the competition a bit.

The question really becomes: Do you want to conserve what is native to your streams and lakes or do you want to conserve the thugs that are taking over. Yes it is a tough situation to be in, and it does seem to be contrary to what we want to do, but in regards to the natives maybe its about time someone stands up for them. I especially feel this way when the invasives are there because some one decided that the fish is no longer worth their effort or attention to take care of and so they become disposable and unimportant to the original owner.
Just my two (and 1/2 probably) cents.

Alot of people get so hung up on the foreign stuff like carp and snakeheads that they ignore our home-grown invasives like flathead catfish, rainbow trout and largemouth bass. When these fish (and others) are moved out of native watersheds they can cause as much damage as the foreign stuff. Flatheads are currently causing population declines of redbreast sunfish and snail and flat bullheads in the Edisto and Altamaha drainages, so much so that the Georgia DNR has a flathead eradication program on the Altamaha. Rainbow trout of course are responsible for the disappearance of many populations of brook trout in the east and cutthroat trout in the west. And largemouth are busy eating up native minnows and pupfish in the west. Unlike the exotic invasives, you can't bootstomp a rainbow or a largemouth. You can probably do it to a flathead in Georgia......just watch out for the spines.

Alot of people get so hung up on the foreign stuff like carp and snakeheads that they ignore our home-grown invasives like flathead catfish, rainbow trout and largemouth bass.

I'm pretty equal opportunity on this and will take out stocked Rainbows or Salmon in this area to the degree that the law allows me to. I do not do catch and release on stocked exotics unless I'm told I can not do so and when I fish for them I go for the max limit I can take..

Most here know I'm very fond of Gars and Lampreys...Well I kill hundreds of Sea Lamprey a year and when an Alligator gar popped up in a lagoon and I found it.. I killed it too. I've seen some fish I highly suspect to be Florida gars that have been released in another lagoon...These fish have been tricky for me for if I'm wrong I'm knocking off one of the rarest fish in the region (Spotted gar) but if I'm right I'm letting these roaches live. I have not been able to catch them yet in a manner that would not involve impaling them on a 6 foot fishing dart being flung at 100 mph...If I catch them and they are Florida...I'm killing them..I really do not have a problem with thinning out certain Natives in areas where condition favor them to become invasive. For example Green sunfish and Black bullheads. These nasty little critters take advantage quickly of degraded conditions and can easily become a serious problem to more conservative fishes barely hanging on in such degraded conditions. Thinning out a few of them is not a bad idea in some cases.

I personally do not discriminate between a 'native' invasive or exotic or a foreign invasive or exotic..They are all the same. As I said earlier this has nothing to do with Hate for an animal, it has everything to do with protection and preservation of what little natural biodiversity we have left.

Okay, here's a tough one (I think). All fish got to their natural range by being distributed by various natural means from their points of origin; they expanded their range. If a fish's natural range appears to be expanding naturally, is this natural occurrence acceptable, or are they considered to be invasive in their expanded range? On the other hand, how do you know whether the range expansion is due to natural means, or human intervention?