College Questions

Ok, I am a senior in HS and for those who remember... around this time is when the little kiddos begin realizing that, hey, life has the potential to be a lot different in a year or two!

So I've been thinking about the whole college thing and one major that popped up would be aquatic biology. I've always been the critter person and I really can't see myself doing something in life that does not deal with fishes/herps/bugs etc. The former, however, seems like it has the most practical applications. For example, I can't think of anything you could do with a degree in herpetology besides field surveys, zookeeping, and teaching people herpetology(not to say I wouldn't like doing those thing, but jobs are few and may not pay enough for later in life). Fish seem more practical and I think I might enjoy the work some people do(including a few on here who appear to be currently working in this field). The directions I can potentially see would be working in aquaculture, working as a fisheries biologist or someone who does field surveys, or simply studying fish for the sake of doing that and running around to find grants.

Any suggestions(including colleges or simply your stories) would be great. The first and foremost is of course that I'd like to enjoy whatever I end up doing.

Take some time off. Figure it out. Work some "odd" jobs. If you aim your life towards practicality and money then that is what you end up with.
Mississippi has a good bug school here at UM and a great fish school at USM.

I would agree with MScooter about not rushing it, however, once you break the chain its often hard to get back into the school thing.

Most people never "know" what they want to do. A very few lucky folks out there can find a job doing what they love, and get paid well. Most others end up doing something that they don't hate.

My advice is to find a school that has a wide range of curriculums offered that interest you, enroll in liberal arts, take the most complete preliminary curriculum that would get requiirments out of the way for focuses that you think you may choose to major in and try a bunch of different classes. There's nothing wrong with taking more than 4 years to get a bachelors (unless you're smoking crack and failing classes). It's your life and you have to figure it out and you'll find that the answer isn't as simple as multiple choice, is an essay that evolves as you have new experiences.

I was lucky, from the time I was a little kid I knew that I wanted to be a Marine Biologist, then I wanted to be a biology teacher. Up to Paul Smith's college in the adirondack mountains and studied ecology for two years, but realized that doing invert samples and counting flowers was finding the syptoms of environmental problems, I wanted to be more active in being able to help solve them. That led me to the forestry college in syracuse, ESF, and a bachelors in Forest Resource Engineering. I now have my civil engineering liscense and work as an environmental engineering consultant cleaning up hazardous and non hazardous waste and former facility sites. My design group is the one that is the lead on the current Hudson River dredging project, for those out there that follow that stuff.

See I would disagree with 'taking time off' approach. I would immediately do something this summer that puts you in one of those fields, even if it is not a full time job (knowing your location would be a big help). Volunteer somewhere and get yoru hands dirty now. There are always places looking for free work and the more experience you have in the long run the better. Plus, you figure out if the biological field is really for you or if it is something you enjoy doing but don't think you would enjoy making a career out of it. There is a big difference between those two situations. By taking that route, you avoid getting two years into a degree program and going "what the F was I thinking" and ending up starting something different from scratch and ending up in school for 6 years. If you do want to go into aquaculture or fisheries biology/management, the class load that can be required now (for AFS certification, which states are starting to pick up as required) doesn't really allow you to beat around the bush for more than a year. Speaking of AFS, if you can get your hands on a copy of Careers in Fisheries, that might be a decent tool for you.

I graduated with a degree in marine biology. After graduation, the job prospects were less than appealing. The best I could get at the time was grant work that was temporary and paid just above minimum wage. Granted, I did not look outside of the Charleston area initially. Thankfully, I also got a minor in chemistry and found a job outside of my major. I now oversee all the death investigations in regards to toxicology for the SC state police.

This seems to work well for me. I have a very supportive wife that allows me to get out and help with various projects with DNR, USGS, as well as provide specimens for anyone that requests them from the area for research and helping Fritz with collections, etc. for the upcoming book. I think this allows me to have my fun with what has become my hobby, but not chance burning out on it by doing it every day.

Have you considered military service, either before or after college?

I am hard pressed to think of a better way for a young person to expose themselves to "life" in general. You will meet people from every walk of life, from all different areas of the country. You would see the best and worst of what the our country is all about. Now we are involved in a war in 2 theaters and i seriously doubt that it will be resolved in the near future, that is a definite deterrent for some, other people are drawn to this sort of thing.

Also, there are plenty of people who's occupation is far removed from their college major, I would recommend you pick a major that interests you but also challenges you. If you find yourself coasting along at an easy pace, take it up a notch.

my 2 cents

My advice would be to get a solid grounding as an undergraduate in biology/chemistry without worrying about majoring in a very specific field as an undergraduate. Specialization is what graduate school is all about. And don't do anything called "Environmental Studies" unless you plan to go to law school or into politics, since you won't get any hard skills necessary for both field work and lab-based research.

I still snicker at people who call themselves "pre-med" majors. There's no such thing. Either you're learning science, or you're not.

Bruce thank you for saying that. Environmental Studies is a really a track, just like pre-med (which isn't a major it's just an amalgamation of classes). My undergraduate school had an Environmental Studies program which was always at odds with the Biology Department because they wanted to call it Envi. Science. In reality you only had to take two science classes to get the degree. I had two friends that were in the department and both realized when they graduated they were screwed because they had no background or experience in even basic college level biology. And take a stats class!!!!

I will also agree with Bruce whole heartedly about getting a solid foundation in Biology unless you are absolutely certain about a field/position. There was a great very recent article about how many fisheries biologists aren't getting training in classic taxonomy and how that confounds their work with errors or more specifically figuring out an invasive species. It's a big regret of mine that as an undergraduate I passed on such a class for a specialized class like Marine Ecology. I've become very interested in systematics and taxonomy in the past year or so and I struggle with comprehending much of it. There are some good programs that are specialized for undergraduates in the fisheries/aquaculture field, but specilization, and getting beyond entry level that many of those programs are geared towards, IS for graduate school.

Great way to get biology field experience.

I have had 2 SCA internship. One applications with small fee and you can apply for multiple of hundreds (I have seen 700 listed sat one time) internships. Free board and grocery money. Fed, State, consulting, and environmental groups.

The internships are usually more of intense work on one project (some are slave labor, pulling weeds). You need to take initiative and make regular phone calls to check if the organization still has an opening.

You want Conservation Internships, not Conservation Crew, not Conservation Corps.

http://www.thesca.org/internships/
"Conservation Internships are available in all 50 states and in dozens of conservation disciplines to those 18 and over. Expenses are paid, the work is real, and the benefits to our world are undeniable."

Application Due: If your availability begins:
Nov 15 Mar 1- April 30
Feb 15 May 1 - June 30
March 15 July 1 - July 31

p.s. Fisheries Science is still an Old Boys Network. Where you came from. Who you know.

p.s. Fisheries Science is still an Old Boys Network. Where you came from. Who you know.
[/quote]

What field or profession isn't a good old boys network? Where you came from tends to say alot about the quality of your work and experience. It doesn't always work that way though, what you do holds alot of weight regardless of where you came from or who it was with.

I was an aquaculture/aquatic science major in Morrisville State (NY) for three symesters. It was a two year program but I dropped out. I couldn't handle the math required to tackle such a major. It was a blast while it was there and I learned a lot. I don't regret it at all. I would say aquaculture would be the best route to go in working with fish and actually finding a job. That or research on deep sea fishes. With so much overfishing taking place both are growing rapidly as we try to find new alternative food sources.

Try being a minority and female and getting in to one of those good ol' boy networks of fisheries. I think I've almost broken in though, should be hearing soon!

Your first two years of college are usually filled with general study/liberal arts requirements anyway so it still give you a little time to mull over what you really want to major in. As others have said, contact local offices about temporary or volunteer positions during your summers or even programs through your school that could get you in touch with the right people. Talk to your biology professors, they usually have contacts established with people in those fields that could open up door for internships.
I was in a program through my school where I actually did one of my workstudy jobs at a local hatchery rather than something on campus. Pretty cool.

Hello guys,

Thank you all for the responses!

Ashton: I am located in Central CA. I know there is a hatchery that works with trout nearby. The local zoo only takes volunteers over the age of 18. Now, it is possible I could do a few months there over the summer however.

Scottenfontay: That is a great story, and a pretty interesting turn of events. I can say that as far back as I remember I have always been interested in fish/critters/the outdoors and the work biologists did always appealed to me.

dsmith: Also a cool story. Would you say before this that you had any interest in chemistry? I got a rather harsh introduction to it taking it my freshman with a teacher who happened to not be very interested in chemistry(C both semesters). I haven't learned to like chemistry but I realize it will be very important later on and goes hand in hand with bio. Funny thing is is that when I got this teacher again junior year for AP Bio he was far more animated and the class way more interesting.

hmt321: I haven't strongly considered military service. Can't really see myself doing that(I am not 100% sure what "that" is however), though I know many who have gone and enjoyed it. I would be the first in the family to serve for the US though.

fundulus: That is pretty good advice. I've thought it might be nice to split relatively early from the aspiring pre-med crowd(no offense to anyone here in the medical field) however but getting the basics down could allow me later to decide where to go.

uniseine: Never heard of that one. I will take look. Nope don't happen to have any connections in high places. My dad happens to be a civil engineer and runs his own small consulting firm. I'm sure he'd love for me to take over the reins and play with dirt for a bit but his work never really interested me.

Sandtiger: I can do math, but it is definetly not my best subject. I am in the process of taking a stats class.

Turtlelover: No idea if we have anything like that here, but it sounds like a great option if we do. I've done some volunteer work but not much related to what I may really be interested in.

I have a degree in Zoology with a minor in Mathematics. My work is business management! I scorned business majors. Scorn, scorn, SCORN! Still do.

I don't recommend a life sciences degree unless you are pursuing a Ph.D. - if you want to work in the life science field, that is.

I don't recommend a life sciences degree unless you are pursuing a Ph.D. - if you want to work in the life science field, that is.

I have a degree in Marine Geology and I'm actually working with the critters.

I don't recommend a life sciences degree unless you are pursuing a Ph.D. - if you want to work in the life science field, that is.

I wouldn't pursue a life sciences degree unless you are planning on completing a masters. Many people become disinfranchised because they don't get good life science jobs with a BS, and honestly, it's not the system that's failed them. The system is set up for reasons. A BS creates a scientist on an introductory, binge and purge level, and they've not been trained to think for themselves as scientists. That happens in a masters program.

As far as a bachelors... Suck it up and get it done. Most of your classes will have very little to do with job training, most all of them have to do with learning "life" and time management. Don't wait around, it's too tempting to not start. It's just something you have to do. No one expects someone with a bachelors to do much of anything (including business majors) until they've had time to age and gain experience (ever wonder why Pharmacy is a 6 year program? They expect a great deal from them!). So NEVER feel tied to your bachelors major, like that's the end of your life story (unless entering pharmacy heehee).

A masters program is NOT for everyone at 22 or 23 years of age. There are some who know what they want at 18, but that's few and far between. For people that aren't that type (ie the rest of us ), and are looking into the natural sciences, there are hordes of seasonal jobs all over the United States and Canada (not to mention abroad) for people who are willing to work hard for little, but get paid in some of the most beautiful sunsets in the world. You can find jobs like this through organizations like the Nature Conservancy, State and Fed agencies or even look into Americorps. And you are IN the field, watching biology and ecology happen.

I think this is a great opportunity to seize, and you will learn so much about the world and yourself. I could have seriously benefit by throwing off the saftey belt. And I would have never had to take the $65k pay cut going back to school from my financially secure, private HELL I spent in the Corporate world doing business with my bachelor's degree in Biology. However, I can tell you the sacrifice is worth every penny of debt I've now incurred to manage the financial roadbumps in this major life change.

If you go this route (the "I'm not ready for grad school, what can I do?" route)... You may think the best thing that ever happened to you was that you ended up managing streams in the short grass prairie region, and you can't think of anything else you'd rather do (a win). - OR - There's no way you want to be doing that crap when you're 45, so you go back to school and learn how to think and communicate as other scientists think and communicate (a win).

Then you might find there's all sorts of questions you want to examine, and get sucked into a research degree. I'll be 40 before I have a "career" now, I didn't intend to do a PhD. But I get to live my work in the meantime

Todd

Once again guys, this thread has been a great help.

I've been wondering though...is it a big deal really what I get my BS in? Most colleges offer Marine Biology, ecology, and zoology for classes that are remotely related to fish etc. To get FW aquatic biology I'd need to go someplace special.

To do FW aquatic biology studies and research is pretty much a graduate level program anywhere. A BS in Biology is intended to be a broad degree so that the recipient hopefully has a grounding in a range of biology. I hope your school at least offers an ichthyology course, many don't.

Western Illinois University has a cool looking grad program that has classes taught at Shedd Aquarium in Chicago along with several other places. General Biology undergrad program can get you in. Here is a link with some info:

http://wiu.edu/biolo...as/labsense.htm

http://www.esf.edu/a...ns/programs.htm


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