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SRBD

Started by Guest_mikez_* , Jan 26 2008 08:32 PM

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#1 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 08:32 PM

Not long ago I got a nice school of southern redbelly dace from Uland.
Apparently they liked the conditions in their new home. Maybe it was all the greens to go with the meat. These guys graze algae just like blacknose dace.
Anyway, they colored up real nice and before long a few females were lookin mighty phat.
I surfed the web for breeding tips and found a piece by Robert Rice for NFC [here:http://www.nativefish.org/articles/SRedbellyDaceInAquarium.php] that seemed pretty straight forward.
Here's my set up;
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Filtration is an Aquaclear HOB with mature media from the main tank and a foam block on the intake as a sponge filter. Current comes from a powerhead also with a foam block on the intake.
I started with a bare bottom but the fish really freaked till I put a thin layer of gravel down. A pie plate full of smooth rocks is the egg catcher. A heater brought the 65F water up to 72F.
It took the fish two days to settle in and relax.
This morning, just as I was leaving to go to my kids basketball game I spotted this;
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With the whole family literally waiting in the car I grabbed the camera and shot a few poor photos as fast as I could. I figured I'd get another chance but they were done by the time I got home. Although the females looked depleted, they are still pretty chubby so there may be more to come.
This morning's action came before the tank light had come on in the staggered timed sequence. Near by tanks had come on and there was early morning light, almost a crepuscular situation.
Maybe tomorrow I'll get better ones. Until then, here's a few from today.
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#2 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 09:03 PM

Cool stuff Mike! Thanks for posting it. This is a great example of putting in a "chub nest dish".

Todd

#3 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 09:44 PM

That is really awsome. Nice photos also. I have a bunch of spotfin shiners who spawn constantly, they're a blast to watch.

#4 Guest_uniseine_*

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 01:18 PM

Great work. I know the fish did it, but you brought Spring to the tank.

Tell us what you are going to do to raise and document the eggs and fry.

#5 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 05:50 PM

Great work. I know the fish did it, but you brought Spring to the tank.

Tell us what you are going to do to raise and document the eggs and fry.

Well I wasn't home much this weekend and didn't get any better pics of spawning activity.
When I did finally get to spend time observing I saw only depleted colorless spawned out fish.
So I've removed them from the spawning tank and reduced the flow.
I'm not doing anything else until I see some hatchlings. I'm sure most would look for eggs and maybe treat with antifungals but I'm doing this low key.
As far as documenting, well, you're looking at it. This isn't ground breaking work here and I'm no note taker. Hopefully I'll have some success and will take pics and post them here.
Maybe someday after I've done it a few times and perfected the process I'd try for publishable photos and write it up.
For now I'll be happy to raise up enough babies to replace my original stock as they age.

#6 Guest_troutperch beeman_*

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 08:15 PM

Dibs on the fry when they are old enough. :biggrin:

Good stuff good luck hope you have success raising the fry. Keep us up to date.

Well I wasn't home much this weekend and didn't get any better pics of spawning activity.
When I did finally get to spend time observing I saw only depleted colorless spawned out fish.
So I've removed them from the spawning tank and reduced the flow.
I'm not doing anything else until I see some hatchlings. I'm sure most would look for eggs and maybe treat with antifungals but I'm doing this low key.
As far as documenting, well, you're looking at it. This isn't ground breaking work here and I'm no note taker. Hopefully I'll have some success and will take pics and post them here.
Maybe someday after I've done it a few times and perfected the process I'd try for publishable photos and write it up.
For now I'll be happy to raise up enough babies to replace my original stock as they age.

#7 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 03:44 PM

Mike,

First this is great info and pics to boot! Second, I'm so happy that group of SRBD were put to good use (keeping fingers crossed for healthy offspring). Third, any information you could jot down on the new BAP form could really help others in the future. The form asks for information that many of us simply don't have time to observe/record and this should not intimidate anyone or make folks feel as though a partial accounting is not valuable. ANY information can make a world of difference for someone trying to spawn native fishes so please submit this on the new form when you have a chance.

http://nanfa.org/bap.shtml

#8 Guest_uniseine_*

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 07:48 PM

Here is my prognostication:
In 2 days, you will find fry sticking to the glass.
In another 2 days, the fry will start swimming and you will need to start feeding the fry. Squeeze out an established sponge filter and/or add some egg yolk suspension.

#9 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 08:24 AM

Here is my prognostication:
In 2 days, you will find fry sticking to the glass.
In another 2 days, the fry will start swimming and you will need to start feeding the fry. Squeeze out an established sponge filter and/or add some egg yolk suspension.

I've already got slivers wiggling inbetween the stones in the pie plate.
Old sponge filter is being replaced by several fronds of some parrot feathery type plant taken last fall from a local pond, kept under lights in green water and now infested with algae and various tiny fauna. Finely powdered spirilina flake and krill will be slowly offered and then baby brine when they look big enough.
The same pattern has worked well for tropicals, I'm confident it will serve well for dace.

#10 Guest_uniseine_*

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 10:46 AM

I've already got slivers wiggling inbetween the stones in the pie plate.
Old sponge filter is being replaced by several fronds of some parrot feathery type plant taken last fall from a local pond, kept under lights in green water and now infested with algae and various tiny fauna. Finely powdered spirilina flake and krill will be slowly offered and then baby brine when they look big enough.
The same pattern has worked well for tropicals, I'm confident it will serve well for dace.

You might want to sprinkle the dry food on the surface. That is how I was told to do it for Rainbowfish. And it was the only way I could raise Red Shiner fry in a tank.

#11 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 12:03 PM

Well I've been poking around amid the stones and see that I've got a lot of fry! They are very tiny. Yolks look almost gone. They still wriggle helplessly. They are deep down in the crevesses of the rock pile. I've been carefully removing stones in case they are trapped but I guess they do fine in nature in the chub nests.
I didn't find any fungused eggs in the stones but I did find a few snails and copious snail feces. I'm wondering if the snails ate any fungused eggs? They couldn't have eaten many viable eggs judging by the number of hatchlings.

I was out taking samples for work yesterday and noticed some vernal pools are thawing around the egdes. That could be good timing as many of the clean pools grow great daphnia and fairy shrimp colonies at this time of year. I'm wondering if there might be smaller fauna as well for the early stages when the fry are so tiny. Anyone ever experiment with harvesting tiny inverts from the wild?

BTW, Mod, I don't know if this might be moved to a different forum as it may be light on photos until the fry get big enough to shoot. I'd just as soon keep adding to this thread for updates.

#12 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 11:29 PM

Fry swam up today, 9 days after the first spawning action observed. Looks like 50 to 75 healthy ones.
I've been putting in lots of tiny critters by hanging a net over the tank and puttting some pond plants or leaves from vernal pools in the net and slowly dripping water over them. The water drips through the net into the tank and carries an amazing amount of tiny critters. I've also hung another net, a fabric net I use to net day old brine shrimp, and put in fine ground spirilina flakes and FD krill. I drip water into it and cloudy drops of water drips through filled with the finest of the fines.
The fry show much more interest in the flake food. I've actually been able to see them eat it. I have not seen them chase any of the critters.
Heres a few crappy pics.
Posted Image

#13 Guest_netmaker_*

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:31 AM

Beautiful pixs.........

My oscars laid eggs 1 day last week and ate them all the next..........
I just don't have a clue?????

#14 Guest_scottefontay_*

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 09:29 AM

don't be so modest, those are great pics, its not easy to get fry in focus. Congratulations on the successful spawn!

#15 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 12:56 PM

don't be so modest, those are great pics, its not easy to get fry in focus. Congratulations on the successful spawn!

Thanks!
On the one hand, I was really missing my old film camera, tripod, flash bracket and set of three tube extenders. I could have shot those babies crystal clear.
One the other hand, I was grateful I wasn't spending $40.00 at the one hour film development to get one or two clear shots.
Instead I just shot about 100 digital pics, culled like crazy, then enlarged the keepers with software. Ah, these days we live in... :tongue:

I still would have liked pics from my film SLR better. I guess it's time to put some $$$ away toward that DSLR I've been craving. :rolleyes:

#16 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 02:09 PM

I spawned this species back when I was in Highschool, they were the second species of natives I ever successfully spawned (spotfin shiners were the first) and this thread sounds almost exactly like what I did. This makes me want to go back and try some minnow species once again, great job and great pictures!

#17 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 05:55 PM

Great stuff Mike! I totally agree with Scott... Those ARE tough shots to get!

Todd

#18 Guest_pmk00001_*

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 06:06 PM

Great stuff, thanks for keeping us posted Mike

#19 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 09:46 PM

Well, since I last posted, I found out that just as the spawn takes a couple of days to complete, it takes a couple of days for all the fry to swim up.
I said last time I had maybe 50 - 75 fry. Actually, it was closer to 150 - 200. Unfortunately, I just don't have room to raise them all. I wish I could but I'm just gonna pollute the water trying to keep them all fed.
I guess I'm gonna have to add some to my various tanks as feeders. I hate to, but have no choice. Maybe a few will escape and grow up in the other tanks.
I'm starting to see differences as the more aggressive feeders start to pull away from the timid ones.
There were a few that failed to swim up and stayed on the bottom and wiggled helplessly. I scooped a couple to examine under the microscope for curiosity.
It doesn't show very well in these pics but under the scope it was evident that they had reduced or empty swim bladders. No food can be seen in their gut.
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If you look close, the one on the far left is a normal, healthy fry with full swim bladder. Digested food is visible in the gut [I scooped it first thing in the AM. Food is from the night before].
You can see the difference between the healthy fry and the two that failed to swim up.
Posted Image

#20 Guest_TurtleLover_*

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 05:39 PM

We used to raise these at the facility I worked at. From what I remember I think as soon as these guys swim up we offered them freshly hatched baby brine and some powdered freeze dried cyclopeeze. Cyclopeeze is great stuff for alot of native fry after they swim up, we had a lot of success with it. Babies loved it.