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Please don't hate me...

Started by Guest_Vee_* , Feb 24 2008 05:19 PM

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30 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Vee_*

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 05:19 PM

Well first off, I do expect to get a little flaming from this, and thats ok, I think I deserve it.

First off, hi, my name is John! I am married and have one beautiful son, who is 8. I hav been keeping fish for quite a few years, and have a couple community tanks, some cichlid tanks, and a reef tank. My son is also into fish.

Well I took my son to a local pond today and he caught a little baby pumpkinseed sunfish with his net, its only about 2". He begged and begged me to keep it so finally I gave in and we brought it home in a jar.
I quickly set up a small 4 or so gallon bowl, with some gravel and a small fake plant for the little guy, now named Sunny. Yes, I know this is small, but I only plan to keep Sunny for a little. I will release him in 3 or so months, when my son loses interest, like I know he will.

My questions are, are pumpkinseeds hardy enough to survive a cycle? Should I put some bio-spira in or would it be better just to not cycle the tank at all, and do 50% twice weekly water changes instead.

Also, what should I feed him/her? From what research I have done, I think I will feed him earthworms, bloodworms, and I will try to get him on New Life Spectrum pellets if I can. How often should I feed?

How big will he grow in 3 months?

How often should I do water changes, 50% twice a week ok?

If you can answer any of these questions it would be greatly appriciated, and sorry in advance, this is only temporary.

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#2 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 05:26 PM

Hi John. How big your fish grows and how much/often water you must change will depend alot on the amount of feed the fish. The more you feed the more it will gorw and they can grow fast, but the more waste it will produce, so you will have to keep up with the water if you aren't using a filter. Sunfish are pretty hardy so I wouldn't be surprised if the fish survives such a fast acclimation period.

Regardless if your son looses interest or not, do NOT release the fish back into the wild. I don't think anyone should chide about the collection, it's already occured, but what you do with the fish (i.e. releasing) is still up to you. Releasing a fish back into the wild is illegal in nearly every state if not all 50, in some cases more than just a local offense with the spread of VHS and whilring disease. Find another humane mean to dispose of the fish or a surrogate owner.

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#3 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 05:28 PM

I will try to end the flaming fast. Do not release the fish back into any public body of water. A private pond, disconnected from any water way is fine. There are many concerns with release. Disease being a major one. Search the forum, and you will surely find all the reasons why release is not a good option.

And now we can get on with his questions.

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#4 Guest_Scenicrivers_*

Guests

Posted 24 February 2008 - 05:44 PM

I quickly set up a small 4 or so gallon bowl, with some gravel and a small fake plant for the little guy, now named Sunny. Yes, I know this is small, but I only plan to keep Sunny for a little. I will release him in 3 or so months, when my son loses interest, like I know he will.

My questions are, are pumpkinseeds hardy enough to survive a cycle? Should I put some bio-spira in or would it be better just to not cycle the tank at all, and do 50% twice weekly water changes instead.

Also, what should I feed him/her? From what research I have done, I think I will feed him earthworms, bloodworms, and I will try to get him on New Life Spectrum pellets if I can. How often should I feed?

How big will he grow in 3 months?

How often should I do water changes, 50% twice a week ok?

Welcome aboard. It is great to see another father teaching apprieciation of the outdoors to their children.

First, ditto's from the previous two posts about not releasing.

As said above sunfish are hardy and you can probably change 30% once a week (depending on how much you feed it). I switch my food for sunfish. I use chiclid flake food, chiclid pellets and tubiflex worms. I feed them every other day. Some times in warmer weather I get grubs and worms from the flower garden. They are not hard to keep.

Welcome to the forum. I am sure that once you find others in your area that you will be able to hook up with them and take some seining trips with your son.

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#5 Guest_Vee_*

Guests

Posted 24 February 2008 - 06:50 PM

Thanks for all the fast responses!

I've been reading around the forum, and I can see what you mean about not releasing fish. In the couple days I have had this little sunfish, I've grown very attached to him. I'm think of starting a new, bigger tank for him, but that won't be ready for the next few months so until then he's in my 4 gal...*sigh*

I'm still very curious to know some of the answers to my previous questions, can't wait!

Thanks for all the help so far, and thanks for any other help in advance!

-John

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#6 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 07:23 PM

Since it's a young fish getting him on pellets should be easy. Every Lepomis sunfish I've ever had, wild and captive bred, has eventually accepted pellets and many were on pellets only. I'd just feed it a few pellets at a time, only what it will eat. Instead of frozen bloodworms try frozen beef heart, krill, or plankton. A sunfish isn't going to get much out of small food like bloodworms.

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#7 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 24 February 2008 - 08:01 PM

OK, no flames, just answers...

Yes, the Pseed is probably hardy enough to survive the cycle... but why do it... the bio additives that are available are not that expensive, help the little gut out and make it as easy as possible for him.

He will probably eat anything, and will likely convert to pellets easily (sunfish are very visual feeders and even a pellet, particularly if it is falling slowly through the water will be more than he can resist).

Growth will be relative to feeding, but he should not get out of hand in just three months.

As with all aquariums, water changes are always a good idea. If you use the bio-additives (which I do suggest) then you should be able to keep it down to about 25% every couple of weeks.

And one suggestion... get a bigger tank and keep the fish, you will be teaching responsibility and respect for nature.

My questions are, are pumpkinseeds hardy enough to survive a cycle? Should I put some bio-spira in or would it be better just to not cycle the tank at all, and do 50% twice weekly water changes instead.

Also, what should I feed him/her? From what research I have done, I think I will feed him earthworms, bloodworms, and I will try to get him on New Life Spectrum pellets if I can. How often should I feed?

How big will he grow in 3 months?

How often should I do water changes, 50% twice a week ok?

If you can answer any of these questions it would be greatly appriciated, and sorry in advance, this is only temporary.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#8 Guest_Vee_*

Guests

Posted 24 February 2008 - 08:12 PM

As with all aquariums, water changes are always a good idea. If you use the bio-additives (which I do suggest) then you should be able to keep it down to about 25% every couple of weeks.

What are some good bio-additives? Would Hagen Cycle work? Or should I get Seachems stability or Bio-spira?

I will be moving him to a bigger tank, i just don't know when...

Also, I have relised that the tank is actually 2.5 gallons, not 4. Is this a big problem?

Edited by Vee, 24 February 2008 - 08:17 PM.

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#9 Guest_Skipjack_*

Guests

Posted 24 February 2008 - 08:17 PM

Bio additives are not that great. Do you have another tank? If so media from the filter, or even gravel will do you much better than any additive.

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#10 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

Guests

Posted 24 February 2008 - 09:41 PM

finally I gave in and we brought it home in a jar.

And so begins a lifelong obsession.

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#11 Guest_Vee_*

Guests

Posted 25 February 2008 - 07:23 AM

And so begins a lifelong obsession.

LOL, I'm sure it will.

I do have some gravel and the sponge from one of my HOBs in there right now.

I am planning on getting a 29 gallon, just for this sunfish, and maybe a crayfish. This won't be ready for another few monts though.

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#12 Guest_smbass_*

Guests

Posted 25 February 2008 - 09:28 AM

I keep a lot of sunfish and if this fish is 2" or less the best food for it In My Opinion is frozen blood worms. I have found I can get the best growth out of my sunfish on those up to somewhere between 2-3 inches. I then try to get them switched over to some sort of pellet food when they are about 2" and hopefully by 3" they have caught on and are converted. Then as they get larger I feed them primarily pellets with some earth worms and crickets mixed in as suplements. I don't think you said exactly what size your fish is (just that it is small) but hopefully this will help in deciding what to feed it regaurdless.

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#13 Guest_mikez_*

Guests

Posted 25 February 2008 - 10:19 AM

I second the frozen bloodworms for growing out the little guys. They eat them with great enthusiasm and they seem to have the right stuff to grow 'em up quick.

You might as well go ahead and set up the bigger tank. And while your at it, you might want to take a look around and try and decide where you're gonna put the next few tanks which will follow after. :grin:

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#14 Guest_bullhead_*

Guests

Posted 25 February 2008 - 12:19 PM

And don't be disappointed if your little pumpkinseed turns out to be a bluegill! They're hard to identify when small.

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#15 Guest_Vee_*

Guests

Posted 25 February 2008 - 03:13 PM

And don't be disappointed if your little pumpkinseed turns out to be a bluegill! They're hard to identify when small.

Thanks for bringing this up! Is there any way to identify bluegill from sunfish when they are small? Whats the best way to identify when they are larger?

The guy is about 2" right now.

He still will not eat, but I'm not giving up.

If I put him in a 29 gallon in a couple months.....what tank mates, if any can he have? Some crustaceans maybe?

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#16 Guest_Newt_*

Guests

Posted 25 February 2008 - 03:20 PM

Thanks for bringing this up! Is there any way to identify bluegill from sunfish when they are small? Whats the best way to identify when they are larger?

The guy is about 2" right now.

He still will not eat, but I'm not giving up.

If I put him in a 29 gallon in a couple months.....what tank mates, if any can he have? Some crustaceans maybe?

There are a lot of sunfish species (the bluegill is one of them), and the young look pretty similar; if you can post a good-quality photo, no doubt someone here can ID it for you. If you modify your profile under My Controls to tell us where you live, the fish ID pros (I'm not one of them :laugh:

) can more easily tell you what species are in your area and how to tell them apart.

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#17 Guest_Vee_*

Guests

Posted 25 February 2008 - 04:55 PM

Getting a picture would be difficult, since I do not have a digital camera.

If anybody could just give me some advice, hints, things to look for in identifying young bluegill form young pumpkinseed it would be greatly appriciated.

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#18 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 05:05 PM

Getting a picture would be difficult, since I do not have a digital camera.

If anybody could just give me some advice, hints, things to look for in identifying young bluegill form young pumpkinseed it would be greatly appriciated.

Well, a few characters that will help you distinguish between those two species are:

Young bluegill have pronounced vertical dark bars on the body; young pumpkinseeds are more spotted or checkered in appearance.

The opercular lobe (the little 'tab' projecting from the back of the gill cover) is totally dark in bluegill; in pumpkinseeds it is dark with a pale margin along the lower part (becomes red in adults).

Bluegill about the size of yours begin to develop a dark spot in the lower rear portion of the dorsal fin; pumpkinseeds lack this spot.

However, these characters will only help if you are sure it is one of those two species. Depending on where you live, it could be any of a dozen or more species of sunfish, so again, please tell us what area you are in.