Black Soldier Fly larvae, aka Phoenix worms

I think the Biopod is great and I'm greatfull for the work being done by the folks there but I still wish it would come down in price a bit. I'm still determined to think of a DIY homemade unit that's self harvesting and substantially cheaper. The best one I've seen so far is just a bucket at a 45 degree angle with another bucket under the lip. Not nearly as elegent as the Biopod though... wouldn't handle nearly the amount of compost per square foot area or look as good doing it.

Jeff Tomberlin (see picdture above) gave us permission to post the following article on our website. It specifically addresses the problem or rearing in captivity.

Hi Robert,

I've been doing red wiggler compost worms for a few years, but BSF larvae sound even better. Is the BioPod system actually available for ordering right now? As someone noted above, the only online ordering option on the biopod site has a "coming soon" message -- and I haven't yet tried the phone or e-mail order options.

How do you get larvae for the biopod system? Does it ship with a starter batch, or do you let them come in from the wild? I don't see any info about that on the sites.

I checked Dr. Sheppard's site as a source of grubs, as mentioned in another post above. Cheapest option available is $26 -- not exactly a steal...

-Jase

Wow. Clearly getting them to mate would be the biggest problem.

For someone in need of only a few breeders for each generation...I wonder if hand-pairing is possible? works for butterflies...why not Diptera?

Edited by critterguy, 05 March 2008 - 02:07 AM.

Hi Robert,

I've been doing red wiggler compost worms for a few years, but BSF larvae sound even better. Is the BioPod system actually available for ordering right now? As someone noted above, the only online ordering option on the biopod site has a "coming soon" message -- and I haven't yet tried the phone or e-mail order options.

How do you get larvae for the biopod system? Does it ship with a starter batch, or do you let them come in from the wild? I don't see any info about that on the sites.

I checked Dr. Sheppard's site as a source of grubs, as mentioned in another post above. Cheapest option available is $26 -- not exactly a steal...

-Jase

Dr. Sheppard is a great guy and he has done more than anybody in advancing the cultivation of BSF. I totally support buying larvae from him. However, I think his prices are more inclined towards the animal/pet market. We are seriously considering offering starter colonies for sale when people order a Biopod™. Doing so I think we will offer something in the same price range but then for an entire POUND of larvea (not sold by the 100's). Offcourse we have the greatest respect for Dr. Sheppard and in all fairness feel that we shouldn't get into the business of raising larvae as Phoenix worms. We would rather focus on designing great systems to make it easier for anybody to raise their own.

We are currently producing a very limited number of Biopods a day. Our mold was very expensive and we are filling some larger orders that helped pay for our mold first. We have pushed the manufacturer to the limit. We should have everything ready for retail by end of april, beginning may. I wish this could be sooner, but at least it gives everybody the chance to start their colonies under optimal seasonal conditions. This further reduces the need for a starter colony.

If you have questions on how to start a colony please ask? It's the absolute cheapest way. I started my colony on an 8th floor balcony in the middle of downtown Dallas. It just takes some time. Our manual addresses a lot of do's and do not's. You can find it in the resource section of our site or at http://www.thebiopod.../resources.html.

Robert

- Robert

We are seriously considering offering starter colonies for sale when people order a Biopod™. Doing so I think we will offer something in the same price range but then for an entire POUND of larvea (not sold by the 100's). Offcourse we have the greatest respect for Dr. Sheppard and in all fairness feel that we shouldn't get into the business of raising larvae as Phoenix worms.

If you're hoping to market the pods outside of BSF's normal range (for example, I live in Vermont), it seems you'll need to set up some means of getting eggs/lavae to individuals. Doesn't make much sense to ask people to buy them in sufficient quantity from a pet shop or online retailer catering to herp owners. Maybe some sort of partnership with Dr. Sheppard, if you don't want to compete with him directly?

Am I correct in understanding that a BioPod could work year-round in a heated greenhouse? You note that the flies seem to require natural light to mate, but do they also require a certain number of hours of light per day in order to breed (as is the case for many fish)?

Best of luck -- I'll definitely be a customer if it's possible in my area. Thanks, Jase

If you're hoping to market the pods outside of BSF's normal range (for example, I live in Vermont), it seems you'll need to set up some means of getting eggs/lavae to individuals. Doesn't make much sense to ask people to buy them in sufficient quantity from a pet shop or online retailer catering to herp owners. Maybe some sort of partnership with Dr. Sheppard, if you don't want to compete with him directly?

Am I correct in understanding that a BioPod could work year-round in a heated greenhouse? You note that the flies seem to require natural light to mate, but do they also require a certain number of hours of light per day in order to breed (as is the case for many fish)?

Best of luck -- I'll definitely be a customer if it's possible in my area. Thanks, Jase

To the best of our understanding there is some aspect to natural light that is required for mating to take place. Research has not isolated these factors so they can be reproduced artificially. But a heates glass greenhouse goes a long way in most colder climates. I don't know about Vermont? In either case these mating factors have to be determined, as it is very costly to heat poorly insulated greenhouses in very cold climates that need year round putrescent waste management.

Everyone,

The following just PROVES that raising BLACK SOLDIER FLIES makes ecological sense. Nature does it efficiently and now MAO ZHANG confirms that flies are the way of the future. Offcourse he hadn't read our post about soldier flies as a harmless alternative to house flies... The following patent is titled: Rearing fly larvae and animals in space for waste recycling and food supplying. Check out US patent 6938574

Just found this PATENT and figured this was REALLY out there and at the same time inline to what we are doing.

At least it proves that we are not crazy for envisioning black soldier flies as beneficial for our gardens and our ponds, if they are actually proposing a system for SPACE. Not kidding...

I'm especially blown away that they even claim that you can use the "maggot powder as healthy food for the humans to assist in resisting radiation and improving immune abilities".

Rolivier79

If you all are still interested I'm getting my BSF colony established now. Here's some recent photos:

Adult Black Soldier Fly laying eggs in a bait box on top of my garbage can.


BSF eggs on the top and bottom of two garbage can lids.




Eggs on the can liner.


The same eggs after collecting.


A hatchery stocked with Purina Gamefish Chow.

So I take it BSF aren't native further north? I live in the Chicago area and would like to start a culture. Does anyone know what their wild range is?

The following just PROVES that raising BLACK SOLDIER FLIES makes ecological sense. Nature does it efficiently and now MAO ZHANG confirms that flies are the way of the future.

Well, no, it doesn't prove that. It's a patent application. I agree that BSF larvae seem awesome, and I'm looking forward to getting started with them myself. But... be careful of jumping into the mode of grabbing at any bit of evidence as ABSOLUTE PROOF THAT THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER SINCE SLICED BREAD!!!!!

Stick by reasonable claims based on the studies that pass scientific rigor, and you'll be far better off. Too many "alternative medicine" and other products/ideas which probably have some merit shoot themselves in the foot by overstating the claims. I think you've got something really interesting here (and mentioned it to a colleague who is doing work on waste management in Africa just last week). Just don't fall into the trap of getting yourself labeled as pseudoscience by overstating what actual research using the scientific method can prove.

BTW, eConservation.com link on http://www.thebiopod...ages/order.html is broken, and other suppliers show out of stock. Is the product actually shipping yet?

I'm actually starting a small-scale compost worm business this summer (Wormy Acres of Vermont, http://vermontworms.wordpress.com/ ), but BSF fly larvae look even more interesting in some ways. Different niches, I guess. If you want compost, red wigglers are the way to go. If you want conversion to a usable protein source (fly larvae), seems BSF are the way to go. I'm psyched to give them a try.

And don't think I'm just ragging on you or BSF. There are *tons* of people out there making absolutely outlandish claims about compost worms. They aren't little miracle workers, they're just worms. Some folks would have you believe that you can solve all of the world's problems with red wiggler compost worms, but they're just one of the many, many ways nature has of dealing with waste. Like BSF, they just happen to be one that you can effectively use in a controlled environment.

Edited by jase, 20 May 2008 - 05:43 PM.

jase, (I know you were addressing rolivier79, but) to be fair there is a decent amount of scientific study about Black Soldier Fly larvae. I began as a skeptic, but as far as I can tell from my reading and personal research there is every reason to believe BSFL can make a huge impact on a global scale. The biggest roadblock to implementing this technology on a large scale is our bias towards chemical/mechanical methods. In other words, I believe that BSFL are indeed the best thing since sliced bread. In fact, BSFL would happily consume all of the discarded sliced bread that is in our landfills.

I'm always ready to entertain the downsides of this technology, and I welcome any such perspectives.

Here's a few interesting links:

http://www.virtualce...le/ibs_conf.pdf

http://www.cals.ncsu..... files/A2.pdf

edit: Here's an interesting link, but it should be noted that the author is rolivier79's father:

http://www.biotech.k...s/po-brazil.pdf

Edited by fish for brains, 22 May 2008 - 11:20 AM.

Trust me, I believe there's plenty of evidence indicating how cool and environmentally-friendly these guys are. My point was just to be careful about exactly which things you hold up as *proof* that they're awesome. One controlled study using full scientific rigor is worth 50 anecdotal reports. If you make too many claims based on anecdotal evidence, the scientific community is going to shun you, and then you'll have a *very* hard time ever getting into the scientific mainstream.

That's what happened to a lot of Eastern medicine (acupuncture, herbal remedies, etc.). Fanatical adherents made too many claims that they couldn't back up with real science (even if they were partially true). Science then shunned them for decades, and is only now becoming willing to take another look. Turns out that there *is* something to all of that, but it was viewed as pseudoscience for a very, very long time because adherents weren't willing/able to put their methods up for real scientific review.

I'm not saying that's the case here, just making a point. Rolliver's March post just had that same aspect of sensationalism that makes me cringe when I see advertisements for "crystal energy", "body energy realignment", etc. I think he was partially kidding, but I was just trying to offer some advice because I really do want to see BSF larvae become mainstream. -Jase

Edited by jase, 22 May 2008 - 11:29 AM.

You make a fair point Jase, and at the same time I can understand rolivier79's excitement. I've stood on top of an active landfill operation before and being involved with something like BSFL that has the potential to eliminate so much nasty and needless waste is truly exciting. Of course I'm only getting involved on the residential level by selling BioPods, but I hope to see the day that we stop being such a wasteful society, and I believe BSF technology can make a significant contribution towards that goal.

Speaking of BioPods, the first units are due any time. I'm sure there are many variables involved in getting the system of manufacturing and delivery set up. The BioPods are being made in Viet Nam where Dr. Olivier has been working for several years.

BSF do not "eliminate" anything, they convert it from one form to another. If the larvae are not used for something, then you have just turned garbage into flies. If the larvae can safely be used as aquaculture feed, then you got something! (The "safely" part is what concerns me.)

BSF do not "eliminate" anything, they convert it from one form to another. If the larvae are not used for something, then you have just turned garbage into flies. If the larvae can safely be used as aquaculture feed, then you got something! (The "safely" part is what concerns me.)

Exactly. You need to ask how this sort of thing scales. If one person in a neighborhood is using a biopod and allowing the larvae to mature and fly away, no big deal. If *everyone* did it, these "harmless" flies wouldn't seem so harmless anymore...

Edited by jase, 23 May 2008 - 12:56 PM.

Exactly. You need to ask how this sort of thing scales. If one person in a neighborhood is using a biopod and allowing the larvae to mature and fly away, no big deal. If *everyone* did it, these "harmless" flies wouldn't seem so harmless anymore...

Are these flies harmless? Can they carry any diseases? It sounds a little too good.

Are these flies harmless? Can they carry any diseases? It sounds a little too good.

From what I've read, yes, they are pretty harmless and don't carry disease. rolliver and fish_for_brains would be able to tell you better, though.

But... even if they're "harmless", you certainly couldn't have them consuming an entire city's worth of food waste and then flying away. That would be a major ecological imbalance. You'd need to convert the larvae into something else, most likely some kind of agricultural feed.

Although, it would be interesting to see what predator would explode in population if there was an explosion of flies. Flycatchers, perhaps? Swallows? Frogs? Who knows...

You all bring up good points. The reason some people have gotten so excited about Black Soldier Flies is because it's difficult to find downsides to using them. My responses to your questions are from memory, but I think they'll stand up to scrutiny:

Black Soldier Fly larvae consume approximately 95% of the bulk of food waste and reduce most fecal matter by about 50%.

Most food waste converts to larvae at about a 4 to 1 ratio.

When BSFL are processed they are similar to fish meal in terms of nutrition.

BSF only live for a few days as adults and don't have working mouth parts. The result is that they do not spread pathogens like house flies.

There have been several successful tests using BSFL as feed for livestock, poultry and in commercial aquaculture.

The larvae can be fed to wild birds, fish and exotic pets. Since the adults don't bite or carry significant pathogens, a denser population of BSF wouldn't create a health risk.

Any insect or animal can carry pathogens. There is no evidence that I have found indicating any significant health risks posed by Black Soldier Flies or their larvae.

A few of my sources are from the links I posted above. Here's another link, which is from the company that is manufacturing the BioPod. I didn't post it before because it could be perceived as biased, but I haven't found any information that doesn't agree with it: http://www.esrla.com/pdf/Brazil.pdf

I challenge you guys to come up with a potential problem that might arise from using BSFL on a large scale.

From what I've read, yes, they are pretty harmless and don't carry disease. rolliver and fish_for_brains would be able to tell you better, though.

But... even if they're "harmless", you certainly couldn't have them consuming an entire city's worth of food waste and then flying away. That would be a major ecological imbalance. You'd need to convert the larvae into something else, most likely some kind of agricultural feed.

Although, it would be interesting to see what predator would explode in population if there was an explosion of flies. Flycatchers, perhaps? Swallows? Frogs? Who knows...

Jase, the adults die right after they lay their eggs.

From what I've read, yes, they are pretty harmless and don't carry disease. rolliver and fish_for_brains would be able to tell you better, though.

But... even if they're "harmless", you certainly couldn't have them consuming an entire city's worth of food waste and then flying away. That would be a major ecological imbalance. You'd need to convert the larvae into something else, most likely some kind of agricultural feed.

Although, it would be interesting to see what predator would explode in population if there was an explosion of flies. Flycatchers, perhaps? Swallows? Frogs? Who knows...

Even with the adults dying shortly after reproducing I agree that allowing all of the larvae to mature might have a noticeable impact if BSF were used on a large scale. But this is only true if the larvae aren't utilized. What makes this technology so appealing is that it allows the conversion of waste into a highly nutritious food.

The efficiency with which BSFL reduce putrescent waste is impressive. The fact that the larvae can be processed into meal that equals fish meal is what puts this technology into the "best thing since sliced bread" category. IMO.