Carp discussion

Here is a good one:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15533981/

2 million pounds of asian carp removed with a profit of $200.000.00 dollars
Unfortunatly now watch as some try to protect them from "overfishing" as this catches on.

As this catches on, 10 years from now you will hear fishermen complaining about no carp left in the rivers. I can hear it now "I rember when we could go out and fill our boat in a day with the carp, now I have to work all week to catch the same amount. And all of these catfish, Drum, Walleye, Bass and such now showing up. A person can't make a decent living. The government should do something!" Go figure.

Bill F.

As this catches on, 10 years from now you will hear fishermen complaining about no carp left in the rivers. I can hear it now "I rember when we could go out and fill our boat in a day with the carp, now I have to work all week to catch the same amount. And all of these catfish, Drum, Walleye, Bass and such now showing up. A person can't make a decent living. The government should do something!" Go figure.

Bill F.

I was fishing at a river not far from my home at a popular place called May's Point. This place is loaded with fish, I cannot think of a fish that's NOT in this river. Anyway, there are tons of carp here, it's a very popular carp fishing spot. This one woman I was fishing near was talking about how there were about 6 dead carp tossed into the woods not far from where we were sitting. She was really pissed about it, talked about how wasteful it was and etc. etc. All I could do is just roll my eyes. I did tell her that carp weren't native and they shouldn't be released but I don't think she was listening.
It's the same thing you see with trout where they aren't native. Non-native trout get more protection than any of our other fish, game fish or not. Can't collect in trout streams the only trout in the streams here are rainbows and browns.

I'll be honest, I too think that 6 dead carp tossed in the woods is wasteful. I'm not saying they shouldn't be killed, as I feel we should be killing as many as possible. I just think that they should be taken home and eaten. I also think that it sends the wrong message to others who might see them laying there. Not everyone knows that they are invasive and cause problems. Heck, not everyone even knows that what they saw was a carp and not just "some fish". I myself don't want it to look like it's OK to catch fish, kill them, and toss them away like garbage. We treat our environment and its resources that way much too often. If the fish can't be taken home, they should be disposed of in a manner that is both more respectful and less likely to be misunderstood by the general public.

I know that everyone hates carp and they are non-native, and that they really cause damage to the environment. But when you think about what do you think humans have done? They are the most invasive species of all time. And look at the damage that we have done to the earth. I know this sounds like some hippie/PETA garbage, but it’s true. The human race has caused a lot more damage to any waterway than any carp has, and it was humans that placed the carp there in the first place.

I'm NOT at all saying we should protect carp in our native waters, but taking them out of the water, killing them, and leaving them in the woods is pretty disrespectful. I DO think they should be removed. I don't know what the solution is, but I like the idea of overfishing them.

It's not the carps fault that they are so successful at surviving. It's some idiot from the pasts fault for placing them where they shouldn't be. I know this might spark a little fire here on the forum, but what I'm saying is true.

I know that everyone hates carp and they are non-native, and that they really cause damage to the environment. But when you think about what do you think humans have done? They are the most invasive species of all time. And look at the damage that we have done to the earth. I know this sounds like some hippie/PETA garbage, but it’s true. The human race has caused a lot more damage to any waterway than any carp has, and it was humans that placed the carp there in the first place.

On the contrary, we are a highly adapted natural part of the environment. Just like a native fish, we established our present native range through migration and adaptation to our environment. Just like other successful species, we have altered our environment to facilitate our successful survival. You don't blame a beaver when he builds a dam, he uses it somehow (I don't really know how) for his survival purposes. But somehow you blame a man for building a dam for his survival purposes (they serve many survival purposes, e.g. hydroelectricity = heat in homes = keep from freeze to death). The beaver alters the environment and habitat, and that's okay; a man does it, and that's not okay? You call it survival when the beaver does it, but damage when the man does it. There is something seriously wrong with this reasoning. And yes, it is PETA garbage.

Just how do you define a native species, anyway? If it was here before European colonization, then it is native? Then what is a native European fish? Did the Indians not fish some species into extinction, or introduce fish from one waterway into another? Of course they did! And they probably did it many times over thousands of years. Did the fish that you think of as native originate in their current native ranges? Probably not. They probably migrated there. Maybe some of them originated somewhere in their native ranges, and migrated to the remainder of their ranges. Maybe some of them originated elsewhere, migrated into their ranges, and became extirpated in their locations of origin. Is this not how people got to their current range, originating somewhere within the range and migrating into the remainder of the range?

We are a native species and our activity is as natural as the beaver's, or a native fish's. No two ways about it.

I know that everyone hates carp and they are non-native, and that they really cause damage to the environment. But when you think about what do you think humans have done? They are the most invasive species of all time. And look at the damage that we have done to the earth. I know this sounds like some hippie/PETA garbage, but it’s true. The human race has caused a lot more damage to any waterway than any carp has, and it was humans that placed the carp there in the first place.

Yeah thats why I don't really like people all that much either.........This however is a different topic.

It's not the carps fault that they are so successful at surviving. It's some idiot from the pasts fault for placing them where they shouldn't be. I know this might spark a little fire here on the forum, but what I'm saying is true.

The unfortunate truth is they are here, they are silting up where my native fishes spawn, competing with them for space and food resources, and generally wrecking havoc. It may not be "their fault" for being here but they most certianly are not IMO welcome house guests. Carp are a highly destructive species to the native ecosystem..They where not ment to be here and their presence is a detriment not an enhancement.

I do not think you would be saying "it's not their fault" if they carried the bubonic plague and responsable for the killing of millions of people. (Norway rats are wiped out on massive scales using much more brutal methods than knocking a carp on the head with a brick and leaving it for the Native Raccoons, flys and Vultures to consume). Carp are responsible for the destruction of millions of endemic North American fish. These fish must be controlled and they must be removed whenever and however.

I'm personally one thats tired of reading about how this or that endemic fish has been wiped out by the Exotic of the week. I would someday like to leave Ulands children (I do not intend on having any so I'm picking on Uland) with something that appears like a North American native ecosystem with something native left in it....Young Uland does not IMO have to only read about a Rainbow darter in a history book or look at old blanched wilted specimens from the past hidden away on shelfs to be forgotten.

Carp are a destructive species that needs direct control in order to reduce their impact. As far as I'm concerned I really could care less how they are removed. The important part is that they are.

On the contrary, we are a highly adapted natural part of the environment.

Take away our electric and gas powered gizmos and supermarkets Ed and I bet you the human race certianly will thin out pretty quick. We are a species that adapts it's environment TO US. we have not significantly adapted to the enviornment as a species for at least a few hundred years. (I'm speaking broadly here and yes I'm aware of exceptions)

Take away our electric and gas powered gizmos and supermarkets Ed and I bet you the human race certianly will thin out pretty quick. We are a species that adapts it's environment TO US. we have not significantly adapted to the enviornment as a species for at least a few hundred years. (I'm speaking broadly here and yes I'm aware of exceptions)

We have adapted by gaining the intelligence to adapt the environment to us. On the other hand, a beaver adapts his environment to him by building a dam, a bird does so by building a nest, a gopher does so by building a burrow... You get the picture. The ability to alter the environment IS an adaptation.

Just the same, I agree with you. I don't care how the carp are removed, so long as they are. But you and I both know that's not going to happen.

But you and I both know that's not going to happen.

Maybe not but I'm never going to quit trying.....

Maybe not but I'm never going to quit trying.....

I kill them when I catch them. I usually do just pitch them in the woods. There is no waste, something uses their rotting carcasses. Just because a human does not use it does not make it waste. Maggots love them. So do raccoons. I do not feel bad about it either. In fact it kind of makes my day! Carp are great fish where they belong, but in our waters, I prefer them on the bank.

I kill them when I catch them. I usually do just pitch them in the woods. There is no waste, something uses their rotting carcasses. Just because a human does not use it does not make it waste. Maggots love them. So do raccoons. I do not feel bad about it either. In fact it kind of makes my day! Carp are great fish where they belong, but in our waters, I prefer them on the bank.

Quite a few years ago I would feed a few Vultures in our neighborhood with carp. They pretty much got so used to me dropping off carp at a particular time that they would sit around and wait. It was pretty cool actually as I could get very close to these birds. Turkey vultures are quite ammusing birds.

Definitely gives a new meaning to "birdfeeding".... but I very much enjoyed my birdfeeder friends.

Opossums as well as raccoons, fox and coyote also liked to visit the "birdfeeder". I always enjoyed watching them as well.

Bottle flys a common species on rotting fish are also a very preyed upon item by a large number of insectivorous birds as well as Bats.

You don't blame a beaver when he builds a dam, he uses it somehow (I don't really know how) for his survival purposes. But somehow you blame a man for building a dam for his survival purposes (they serve many survival purposes, e.g. hydroelectricity = heat in homes = keep from freeze to death). The beaver alters the environment and habitat, and that's okay; a man does it, and that's not okay? You call it survival when the beaver does it, but damage when the man does it. There is something seriously wrong with this reasoning. And yes, it is PETA garbage.

I understand that people need to survive. But humans don't just build dams. They build malls, dump fertilizer on their lawns, produce tons of trash, burn fossil fuels, etc. The negative impact that humans have had on the environment DWARFS the impact that beavers have had on the environment. I know that humans need to survive and that we are going to have an impact on the environment in some way, but I think that a lot of people havn't a clue that it is possible to minimize these negative impacts.

Humans might not fall under the definition as being "invasive", but we sure do have a similar impact on the environment like most invasives (colonizing everywhere, quickly using up resources, driving other species toward extinction, etc). We don't go around offing people beccause of the environmental damage they've done. I'm not trying to say that the value of a human beings life is equal to that of a carp. I know everyone would roll their eyes and chuckle at that (as I would). But they are animals that are trying to survive just as humans are.

In the end I think we can all agree that they should NOT be in our waters and that they should be removed.

In the end I think we can all agree that they should NOT be in our waters and that they should be removed.

I read this yet get the impression that you would prefer they not be killed. How do you propose we remove them yet not kill them?

But they are animals that are trying to survive just as humans are.

I could say the same for Giardia. Would you protest their demise if you became infected?

How do you propose we remove them yet not kill them?

Ship em all back to Asia?

Element, I like carp as well and can see your point of view but really the only option is to kill them. Now I don't agree with the methods that some people use but there is really no other realistic way to remove them and like brooklamprey was pointing out, they don't go to waste.

I read this yet get the impression that you would prefer they not be killed. How do you propose we remove them yet not kill them?
I could say the same for Giardia. Would you protest their demise if you became infected?

Actually I put in a request the other day for Giardia to be put on the federal list of endangered species (I'm being sarcastic). But seriously, Giardia and a fish are universes away, just as fish and humans are universes away. I understand this. You can't compare their value of life.

I never said I prefer them not to be killed. I said that I think pulling them out of the water and leaving them to suffocate in the woods is not very humane. I think if you are going to kill them, give them a quick death. You might hate carp because they cause all kinds of environmental problems (which is completely understandable), but it's not their fault someone placed them where they shouldn't be. They are doing what comes naturally to them....surviving. Just as those natives that you love (which are also fish) are doing.

Just kill them quick instead of leaving them to suffer.

I did say killing them is disrespectful on my first post up there, but I meant by means of leaving them out to dry. That might have confused things. My bad.

Just kill them quick instead of leaving them to suffer.

I don't think anyone here is in disagreement....
Some of us will just be smiling while doing so and not thinking so much about doing so either.

Just kill them quick instead of leaving them to suffer.

What is the suffering of a few carp, compared to all the evil in the world! Bah! I must concern myself with weightier matters.

I am glad to be a human, but i feel that ecologically speaking, we are the worst thing that has ever happened to this planet. I kill carp out of principle, but a million carp do less damage to this planet in ten years than I do in a day.

a million carp do less damage to this planet in ten years than I do in a day.

What are you doing in one day? Joy-riding 747's? Dumping toxic waste? Out competing native sucker (and others) by taking their food source/habitat?

I think you would have to try pretty hard to do the damage of a million carp in ten years in just one human day.