Lots of carp

Took these pictures (and lots of others) at Montezuma wildlife refuge (northern end of Cayuga lake) the other day and just knew you guys would love to seem em. Apparently what I witnessed was the carp trying to gain access into the warmer waters of the main pool of the marsh. There is a blockade of sorts in their way because the carp aren't wanted in the main pool for what should be to all of us obvious reasons. This is the second time I have witnessed the spectacle.













And here is a link to the video I took...

Wow. Makes you wish you had a fishspear, doesn't it?

There's an orange spot in the fourth photo from the top- is that an orange fish, or just some kind of reflection?

Man that's a whole lotta easy to get fertilizer or protein. Are there consumption advisories on this population?

The orange thing is probably a goldfish. You'll see the persistence of the color variant in hyper productive environs like that. In dyked Lake Erie marshes, goldfish typically make up about 75% of the biomass, and the variant is frequently seen. There just aren't enough herons to eat them all, I guess.

Todd

Man that's a whole lotta easy to get fertilizer or protein. Are there consumption advisories on this population?

The orange thing is probably a goldfish. You'll see the persistence of the color variant in hyper productive environs like that. In dyked Lake Erie marshes, goldfish typically make up about 75% of the biomass, and the variant is frequently seen. There just aren't enough herons to eat them all, I guess.

Todd

I'm not aware of any consumption advisories but I don't eat fish so I don't normally pay attention those that part of the regulations booklet. I doubt they would allow you to remove any anyway. Maybe I'm wrong but if I were them I would fear someone letting their catches go on into the main pool. One good thing about the carp I suppose it that they provide a good food source. This place is home to a breeding population of bald eagles and ospreys. In addition to that the marsh is located on the Atlantic flyway so tons of birds migrate through, lots of herons, cormorants and other fish eaters end up passing through or breeding there.

As for the orange fish, I believe it is a goldfish. I suppose it could be a "koi" but I didn't get a good look at the face to see if it had barbels or not. I got a few other pictures of him in addition to that one.

That's a big goldie, then. I would love to have a 5 pound, bright orange goldfish mounted on my wall.

Edited by Newt, 25 March 2008 - 04:58 PM.

Here is a better picture of the goldfish.


This would not be the first time I have seen a goldfish in the wild. Just last summer I saw a shoal of them moving about in Seneca lake, most were orange like the above fish.

Edited by sandtiger, 25 March 2008 - 05:46 PM.

It probably is a koi. Maybe someone released one and it bred with the carp or something.

What a perfect time to drop a few hand grenades or a couple sticks of dynamite...

From what I hear, market price is 10 cents a pound.

I was Is there an electrical line you can knock over into the water nearby? That just looks like the ultimate opportunity to clean up a lake...

From what I hear, market price is 10 cents a pound.

I saw carp in an Asian market in Austin for $4/lb. I swear I almost quit school and became a professional carp killer.

What a perfect time to drop a few hand grenades or a couple sticks of dynamite...

Hehe, I knew a comment about explosives would come in somewhere and figured it would be from you. Would be pointless though. Carp are pretty well established in New York. Been here since 1831. They are so abundant in Cayuga lake in particular that each year there is a carp fishing derby on the lake. I'm pretty sure blowing them up would either pollute the body of water or provide food for even more carp.

Edited by sandtiger, 26 March 2008 - 12:42 AM.

Hehe, I knew a comment about explosives would come in somewhere and figured it would be from you.

Am I that predictable?
Anyhow.. yeah I doubt it would even dent the population in the end.

Am I that predictable?
Anyhow.. yeah I doubt it would even dent the population in the end.

You are when it comes to carp.
While we were there all the other people were excited and mesmerized, even my wife. And while I will admit that I was impressed to see such an immense number of large fish in one given area I was a bit saddened by the fact that they were an invasive and not some sort of native species instead. I have come to terms with carp being here though because they really are here to stay. If they can be eliminated in a given body of water so be it but it would be a wasted effort in Cayuga lake. At least they haven't made it to the marsh's main pool yet. No, instead we have a crap load of purple loosestrife to contend with there.

I was thinking more along the lines of the managers netting the fish out and sending them to a processing place where they could feed hungry people. Get that win/win kind of thing goin'

And no, it's not a "koi", it's a wild type Carassius auratus with the golden color gene expressed. See how small the caudal base is in comparison to the depth of the body? It's closer to a "shubunkin" than a "koi", which are both just derivatives from this species. You can see how the cultured goldfishes are derived from the wild type here tho with a big specimen.

Newt, I've seen them up to about 2-3 lbs (hard to judge with that deep body). It would make a fine mount

In fact, I've seen one mounted. Where was that at? Cabellas in Dundee? Hrmmm...

Todd

Todd, not to be a stickler for species...as I so rarely find myself in a position to make a correction with anyone on here..but koi and goldfish(shubunkin) ARE completely different species. The goldfish(if indeed this is one) in the photo is the species you mentioned, Carassius auratus), but a koi is indeed a common carp(Cyprinus carpio), and is NOT the same species at all.
Koi are "just" a carp that has been modified through selective breeding for intense color. Goldfish and their various morphs are again, a different species. Personally when I look at that photo, I really think this is a koi based off of it's size(I have never seen a true carassius of more then a few lbs)..but it's just not clear enough to say for sure.
Of course...if I read your post wrong and you didn't intend to say they were all derived from the same species..I shall slink away in shame

Nope, you read what I wrote right. I didn't know that. I thought both were derived from auratus, not one from the other. Thanks for correcting me

Todd

Todd, not to be a stickler for species...as I so rarely find myself in a position to make a correction with anyone on here..but koi and goldfish(shubunkin) ARE completely different species. The goldfish(if indeed this is one) in the photo is the species you mentioned, Carassius auratus), but a koi is indeed a common carp(Cyprinus carpio), and is NOT the same species at all.
Koi are "just" a carp that has been modified through selective breeding for intense color. Goldfish and their various morphs are again, a different species. Personally when I look at that photo, I really think this is a koi based off of it's size(I have never seen a true carassius of more then a few lbs)..but it's just not clear enough to say for sure.
Of course...if I read your post wrong and you didn't intend to say they were all derived from the same species..I shall slink away in shame

You beat me to it, I was going to make the same correction. Personally I do think the fish in the photo is a goldfish just because I have never seen a wild carp with that coloration, just captive koi. Also all the carp I saw were about in the same size range while the goldfish looked considerably smaller than the carp. I suppose it could be a pond escapee or an intentional release but to me it just looks more like a goldfish.

Edited by sandtiger, 26 March 2008 - 10:37 AM.

You beat me to it, I was going to make the same correction. Personally I do think the fish in the photo is a goldfish just because I have never seen a wild carp with that coloration, just captive koi. Also all the carp I saw were about in the same size range while the goldfish looked considerably smaller than the carp. I suppose it could be a pond escapee or an intentional release but to me it just looks more like a goldfish.

Ah, it just looked "carpy" to me and larger then normal for even "feral" goldfish..but you were there, so I defer to you on that! FWIW, I have seen a few "wild" koi. I don't know if they were release/escaped fish, or genetic toss out's from an earlier mixed parentage(I lean toward release) but they are out there in small numbers. Usually, you see them in park ponds or urban waterways, thus the likelihood of them being released fish.

I'm with Todd, that's a goldfish. The body shape looks more goldfish than koi/carp

I've caught loads of godlfish in the Potomac over the years, even some fantails and the ones with the bulging eyes.