Posted 16 October 2006 - 04:00 PM
Posted 16 October 2006 - 04:01 PM
I am defintitely not positive, but it sure looks like it.
I understand. This is interesting no matter which way it goes.
Posted 16 October 2006 - 04:56 PM
Posted 16 October 2006 - 04:57 PM
Posted 16 October 2006 - 05:01 PM
It could just be an odd color pattern of a minnow that is common there.
Originally this was my thought as well. The only cyprinella that should exist are whipplei, spiloptera and lutrensis (steelcolored, spotfin and red). I feel comfortable saying it's none of those. Size alone rules our spiloptera & lutrensis. This fish was larger than any spotfin or red. I'll put some feelers out via e-mail.
Posted 16 October 2006 - 05:02 PM
Posted 16 October 2006 - 05:14 PM
Posted 16 October 2006 - 05:50 PM
Posted 16 October 2006 - 05:51 PM
Posted 16 October 2006 - 06:35 PM
Venusta is a highly variable fish, but at least in MS it doesn't (to me) look like any other minnow.
Posted 16 October 2006 - 07:03 PM
Posted 17 October 2006 - 05:35 AM
Great detail in those pics! Nice!
Posted 17 October 2006 - 07:42 AM
Thanks for the kind words Chip. I love getting field photo records of fish.
Dredcon: Heres the best I can do on the anal fin.
Posted 17 October 2006 - 03:50 PM
I am quoting from the book "C. spiloptera has blue iridescence on the back and flank, and a diffuse horizontal band that terminates in a large basicaudal spot. It has eight anal fin rays and grows to 4 inches on average." Maybe this fish has read the book and the others haven't.
Posted 17 October 2006 - 06:10 PM
With darters, I am just lost unless they are colored up.
Posted 12 November 2006 - 11:51 PM
The first fish looks like whippeli to me, with 10 anal rays. The second looks like spiloptera, with 8 anal rays. I rely heavily on anal ray counts with these two species. When I'm in river segments that could host whippeli, I wait until I get a great male that just has "that look" and then do the count until I find one with the 10-11 rays, as I'm sure the stress of counting eventually kills them.
Still, with them together, you can see how the webbing in the dorsal is much more colored in with whippeli than spiloptera. But that's really never a safe bet to go by with a single fish in hand and no ray count
Really nice work with the camera!
The Muddy Maumee Madness, Toledo, OH
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
Posted 13 November 2006 - 11:43 AM
I tend to agree that spotfin is the most logical choice. This would not only be that largest spotfin I've ever seen but also the only one with a caudal spot. In fairness to the preceding statement, this location is about 100 miles (as a crow flies) from my usual home waters and a good 800 river miles from where I typically sample. Thanks for taking the time to review and sharing your thoughts. Maybe I'll get a chance to poke around this location next spring.
Posted 13 November 2006 - 08:40 PM
In the case of venusta... It looks like someone was doing an art deco installation on the tail end of a Cyprinella minnow. It's incredibly distinct. I recently lost my type specimen and didn't end up ever photographing it. I should be ashamed of myself, because I had it for 2 years. We're going back to 'bammy this Jan though, and I'll definately return with a couple to be sure to photograph. They're a distinctive fish, just not as cool as the Alabama or tricolor shiners they co-occur with. Finding one in Indiana would be absolutely incredible.
And just fwiw... Another species that would look similar in the watershed you were working is the Mississippi silvery minnow, Hybognathus nuchalis. I would expect to find them in Indian Creek, if you hadn't identified them already. High quality tribs of the mainstem Wabash are apparently loaded with them. This was an afterthought today.
Bill Flowers, this was the minnow that "just didn't look right" that we caught in that feeder stream we walked up at Delphi. They look like a Pimephales and a Cyprinella got their business on. Which... I guess I need to photograph that one too
Posted 04 December 2006 - 12:30 AM
Posted 04 December 2006 - 01:14 AM
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