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Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose (KY 5/08)

Started by Guest_farmertodd_* , May 28 2008 11:33 PM

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#21 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 10:20 PM

How can one not be impressed with a Striped Shiner in his glory. Such a plain, slabsided beast throughout most of his life and then the pearlescent King of the Shiners!

I agree, Casper. An underrated minnow to be sure. A male in full pink is something to behold.

#22 Guest_natureman187_*

Guests

Posted 29 May 2008 - 10:42 PM

My moms got an umbrella like that ;-)

Awesome stuff guys. I wish I had more to say but all I've been doing is drooling at those pictures.

#23 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 30 May 2008 - 12:34 PM

1) how did you get the fish to flare all of their fins in your hand? Normally I get really clamped looking photos of darters in hand. Are these live fish, or fixed?

Anchient Chineese Secret!!!

The secret is patience. You have to sit there, continually dipping in and out of the water. They'll splay when you put them under and you're trying to get them tired enough to just let their fins stick the contours of your hand. Yes, you are essentially "Air Boarding" the fish

But the fish is still alive and I've brought home specimens that I've done this with, and have found no ill effects. It's not as uninvasive as Uland's process (which really is the most efficient and least harrasing for the fish), but I can get a good shot right then without having anything else but my camera.

I also make sure the fish is fully resuscitated before letting go (they'll dart off when they're ready). This worked out really well in this case, as Jeff had his underwater camera and made "habitat shots" in the Fish Dome ™. This is another old trick of mine... Wear out the fish and then take pictures in habitat while you make sure it's good to go again. We took that to a different level this trip... In fact, that's what Jeffro was doing in that pathetic picture of us in the rain.

2) Are these ty[pical nothototus, meaning they were lighter in color underwater and got darker as a stress response? Or was the substrate in this area really dark?

Nope, light-brown colored polished sandstone like you see all over the place in the central highlands. They look less colorful snorkelling because of sediment eating up light. You wouldn't believe how much dissolved sediment is in water, even fairly clear water. There are only a handful of streams that I can think of that will have the clarity where you wouldn't want to adjust the contrast in Photoshop after taking the picture. And most of those are bluewater springs in Florida.

The specimens will diminish in color as well as you "Air Board" them. Stress from being with all those other species in a container may have them all fired up (I've seen dominant male Nothos chasing each other around a bucket before lol) but they weaken in color as the process goes on, and they start to stop fighting. Sounds awful, but I don't see how this is any different than fishin' for sportfish.

The trick (again) is to put them in a LIGHT colored bucket with GRAVEL in the bottom. We held all these fish for over an hour. We used a Home Depot orange bucket this time, basically because it was on top in the bucket pile when we started, and then it was the one with the gravel in it... But if it were any warmer or brighter, I would have used a white bucket and got the same result.

Just say NO to black buckets!!!

And as far as video is concerned, bring on the Hydrophlox!

Will have it online this weekend!

Todd

Edited by farmertodd, 30 May 2008 - 12:35 PM.

#24 Guest_Newt_*

Guests

Posted 30 May 2008 - 01:50 PM

That brown rock in our karstland streams is actually mostly chert, Todd, not sandstone. Still silicates, but a different structure and history.

#25 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 30 May 2008 - 03:41 PM

That brown rock in our karstland streams is actually mostly chert, Todd, not sandstone. Still silicates, but a different structure and history.

Did not realize that, and this brings up a question... I've been looking for a good geology book for KY and TN (not necessarily in the same book

). Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions? I have found localized features on the web, but they're regionally specific and written for a wide audience.

Thanks

Todd

#26 Guest_Newt_*

Guests

Posted 30 May 2008 - 04:48 PM

No, but I can ask some of my rockhound colleagues. I'll let you know what I find out!

#27 Guest_Justin_*

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Posted 30 May 2008 - 07:54 PM

I also make sure the fish is fully resuscitated before letting go (they'll dart off when they're ready). This worked out really well in this case, as Jeff had his underwater camera and made "habitat shots" in the Fish Dome ™. This is another old trick of mine... Wear out the fish and then take pictures in habitat while you make sure it's good to go again. We took that to a different level this trip... In fact, that's what Jeffro was doing in that pathetic picture of us in the rain.

Fish Dome ™
Jeff you look a a little wet.

Attached Images

Edited by Justin, 30 May 2008 - 07:58 PM.

#28 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 31 May 2008 - 09:35 PM

Thanks Nathan. I look forward to hearing their response!

Okay kiddos, it's not as nice as I would have liked it... I'm still fighting with the camera and getting the film digital. But that should be resolved very soon.

For now... dut duh duh daaaaaah.... Liquid Sunshine:

('right click, save as' makes everyone happy!)

http://www.farmertod...shine_01_Up.wmv (4.1 mb) small format to get an idea if you're on dial up

http://www.farmertod...shine_02_Up.wmv (8.8 mb) larger format, looks great smashed to 50%

http://www.farmertod...shine_03_Up.wmv (11.1 mb) larger format, the whole staged shot thing.

I think I kept the coppenhagen can out of these shots lol.

Enjoy!

Todd

Edited by farmertodd, 31 May 2008 - 09:37 PM.

#29 Guest_Doug_Dame_*

Guests

Posted 01 June 2008 - 02:35 AM

Enjoy!

Todd

Wow, I did !

Thanks guys, those are very neat, both the videos and the stills. You're dry now but you will always have the px and the memories. (Baring h/w crashes in either, of course.) What are you using to shoot the vids ?

Doug

#30 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 02 June 2008 - 07:58 PM

Thanks Doug, I'm really glad you enjoyed it all

The videos are on a Sony HDR-HC3. I have an Ikelite housing for it. It was the rig I used when we were at McBride a year and some back. You mightahad metallicus on the brain tho

Todd

Edited by farmertodd, 02 June 2008 - 07:58 PM.

#31 Guest_Casper Cox_*

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 05:00 PM

I downloaded the biggest file and enjoyed viewing it and letting my family see what blows my mind and keeps me motivated to jump in the water at every available opportunity! Thanks Todd.
Another weekend coming up and its gonna be hot hot here in Chattanooga but i know where it will be refreshingly cool.

I sure see the difficulties with uw videoing. Dr Roston uses weights to steady himself. I dont like that idea and dont swim to good neither! But i certainly see the value. When i knee locked Justin he was finally able to get a couple steady shots with his uw snappy. Maybe if we were to stake ourselves out admist some rapid bouldered runs we could get some video of those olive darters. Tho the video is nice it is nowhere near the actually intense experience. I suspect that is one of the reasons i have still yet to use my uw video. Not to mention dragging lighting gear around trying to deal with shadows and such.

Here is a pic of Todd and the two Phils in the baptismal pool. Yall were rustling up a few scarlets or warpaints for the trek northward if i remember. After the baptism we meet the glory.
Amen. I believe!

Attached Images

#32 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 11:05 PM

So when one is collecting what color of bucket results in the best fish color retention? I have always heard use really dark buckets (black and dark green, ect...), but I must say Todd the colors of the fish in your pictures look really good! I know when me and natureman187 (Lance) went out collecting a few weeks ago we used a dark green bucket and when time came to take pictures the fish had lost a lot of their colors. I will have to give the white bucket with gravel a try and I guess just see which one works best.

#33 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 11:28 AM

So, what's with the waders? Ya'll 'fraid of gettin' your footsies wet? :-D

#34 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 01:24 PM

You'll be pleased to know that I went barelegged and barefooted on this expedition, Irate.

#35 Guest_uniseine_*

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 03:42 PM

So, what's with the waders? Ya'll 'fraid of gettin' your footsies wet?

Kentucky in the middle of May is not the same, thermodynamically, as Mississippi.

We were actually on the way home when Casper took that picture.

#36 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 05:44 PM

Kentucky in the middle of May is not the same, thermodynamically, as Mississippi.

It's not like we were wearin' neoprene in a swamp in South Carolina in August

And yeah, although I don't advise walking barefoot in the middle Green River due to the enormous amounts of broken glass, Nathan really raised the bar by going barefoot the whole time we were in Munfordsville. Justin was having a hard time accepting that, and Nathan shut him up with "Hey, it's alright, I'm from Tennessee. We only finally got shoes in 1989." lol!

Blake, it's really the gravel in the bottom that makes the difference in the color of the fish over time.

I never use dark buckets because they heat up. The orange ones are permissable in the rain and cold weather, however, I almost exclusively use a white bucket. Just happened on this trip that it was the one that was on top, got the gravel first, and there was never a reason to switch out.

Todd

#37 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 18 June 2008 - 08:34 AM

So when one is collecting what color of bucket results in the best fish color retention? I have always heard use really dark buckets (black and dark green, ect...), but I must say Todd the colors of the fish in your pictures look really good! I know when me and natureman187 (Lance) went out collecting a few weeks ago we used a dark green bucket and when time came to take pictures the fish had lost a lot of their colors. I will have to give the white bucket with gravel a try and I guess just see which one works best.

The bucket color, or more generally the environment color, does have an impact on fish... Todd, Uland and I talked about this a lot on one trip with Nothonotus darters, that seemed to turn very dark in a drak busket (with no substrate in it). I think we have all seen sunfish lighten up when put in a white collection bucket (again with no gravel bottom). Best combination seems to be a lighter bucket (for thermal reasons) and gravel (for both bio filtering and color retention... and maybe fish comfort for benthic or cryptic specicies) as Todd already mentioned.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin