I thought I would get some response from posting pictures of Welaka fry.
http://forum.nanfa.o...h...ost&p=40506
Pteronotropis welaka
Started by
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, Jul 19 2008 11:59 AM
23 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:02 PM
In Tanks
I tried to get Pteronotropis welaka to spawn in my tanks. The Bluenose Shiners were caught in southern Alabama in November. Three groups of 5+ adults were put into a 55, a 30, and a 20 gallon tank. Dollar Sunfish were added to the 55 with many floating yarn mops. In April, the Dollars spawned. Over 300 baby sunfish - no baby Welaka. I raised the Dollars. All the adults went into my 300 gallon pond.
This spring, I made 3 trips to catch Pumpkinseed Sunfish off their spawning nests. I added the male extract to the 30 and 20 - once, three days in a row. The male Welaka did seem to perk up, but no spawning.
On 7/16, three adult Welakas were eaten by one 4-inch Pumpkinseed.
Two male and one female adult Welaka have already burned-out and died.
My ideas for spawning Welaka in a tank: 1) Just make the tank into an indoor pond. 2) Work to get Welaka and sunfish to peak at the same time. 3) Mess with the pH.
I tried to get Pteronotropis welaka to spawn in my tanks. The Bluenose Shiners were caught in southern Alabama in November. Three groups of 5+ adults were put into a 55, a 30, and a 20 gallon tank. Dollar Sunfish were added to the 55 with many floating yarn mops. In April, the Dollars spawned. Over 300 baby sunfish - no baby Welaka. I raised the Dollars. All the adults went into my 300 gallon pond.
This spring, I made 3 trips to catch Pumpkinseed Sunfish off their spawning nests. I added the male extract to the 30 and 20 - once, three days in a row. The male Welaka did seem to perk up, but no spawning.
On 7/16, three adult Welakas were eaten by one 4-inch Pumpkinseed.
Two male and one female adult Welaka have already burned-out and died.
My ideas for spawning Welaka in a tank: 1) Just make the tank into an indoor pond. 2) Work to get Welaka and sunfish to peak at the same time. 3) Mess with the pH.
#3
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Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:23 PM
Pond Spawn
With Dollar fry in the 55, the three Dollar adults and 7 Welaka went out into a 300 gallon pond. The bottom 8 inches of a 55 gallon plastic barrel is sunken into the pond as an underwater planter. By the end of May, the Welaka males had some good, but not great fins. The females were starting to get plump. And the sunfish in Michigan lakes were finishing up their peak nesting.
On 6/14, I was catching the last of the spring daphnia bloom from the pond. I happened to notice 2 swimming slivers. With much work, I removed the Dollar Sunfish fry and Welaka fry from the 300 pond. Then I separated the Welaka from the Sunfish, and tank-raised the Welaka.
With Dollar fry in the 55, the three Dollar adults and 7 Welaka went out into a 300 gallon pond. The bottom 8 inches of a 55 gallon plastic barrel is sunken into the pond as an underwater planter. By the end of May, the Welaka males had some good, but not great fins. The females were starting to get plump. And the sunfish in Michigan lakes were finishing up their peak nesting.
On 6/14, I was catching the last of the spring daphnia bloom from the pond. I happened to notice 2 swimming slivers. With much work, I removed the Dollar Sunfish fry and Welaka fry from the 300 pond. Then I separated the Welaka from the Sunfish, and tank-raised the Welaka.
#4
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Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:25 PM
With Dollars
On 7/7 the Dollar Sunfish in the pond spawned again. The Welaka looked spectacular. No Welaka spawn.
The Dollar Sunfish spawned 3 times, but only once did the Welakas in with the Dollars spawn.
On 7/7 the Dollar Sunfish in the pond spawned again. The Welaka looked spectacular. No Welaka spawn.
The Dollar Sunfish spawned 3 times, but only once did the Welakas in with the Dollars spawn.
Edited by uniseine, 19 July 2008 - 12:28 PM.
#5
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Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:25 PM
Fry
At first, I was removing the Welaka fry with a fine mesh aquarium net. After the third day, doing figure 8's with the fine net killed the Welaka fry. I had to contrive a way to scoop out the fry.
The Welaka fry hung out 1 to 2 inches below surface. I fed paramecium, vinegar eels, and live baby brine shrimp. By 6/29, the Welaka were going deeper for food.
By 7/7, the Welaka were eating like pigs. Now, I am trying to wean the Welaka onto crumbled flake food.
At first, I was removing the Welaka fry with a fine mesh aquarium net. After the third day, doing figure 8's with the fine net killed the Welaka fry. I had to contrive a way to scoop out the fry.
The Welaka fry hung out 1 to 2 inches below surface. I fed paramecium, vinegar eels, and live baby brine shrimp. By 6/29, the Welaka were going deeper for food.
By 7/7, the Welaka were eating like pigs. Now, I am trying to wean the Welaka onto crumbled flake food.
#6
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Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:39 PM
Ummm, I thought tanks were indoor ponds. What are the significant differences in your opinion? Mine is planted with rooted and floating plants alike, no lid, and with natural sunshine from the window. I also seasonally drop the water level. What else would I need to do to turn it into a pond versus a tank?My ideas for spawning Welaka in a tank: 1) Just make the tank into an indoor pond. 2) Work to get Welaka and sunfish to peak at the same time. 3) Mess with the pH.
May I assume the yarn mop simulates a floating moss mass providing cover for eggs and or fry?
If a Sunfish will eat a Welaka, I don't understand why they are in the same tank/pond together, or did I misread something?
Do the Sunfish and Welaka typically peak at the same time in nature?
I have only an inkling what might be meant by male extract, and or why it would perk up another fish.
The one and only time I "messed" with the pH, it was a disaster! A real rollercoaster or peaks and pits. When you say "mess" what do you mean and how do you achieve it?
#8
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Posted 19 July 2008 - 01:59 PM
The one and only time I "messed" with the pH, it was a disaster! A real rollercoaster or peaks and pits. When you say "mess" what do you mean and how do you achieve it?
I had some Leptolucania ommata, Pygmy Killifish in a bare bottom 5 gallon tank with a sponge filter, one floating and one sinking mop. I found that a shot of acid (phosphoric?, to drop the pH to 5 or 4?) stimulated the killies to lay eggs. Welaka do come from Black Water.
Edited by uniseine, 19 July 2008 - 02:02 PM.
#10
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Posted 19 July 2008 - 03:00 PM
Thank you, Phil, I appreciate the answers.
A.T. What a salesman! You have me wanting to collect them now! It's interesting how times change: in 1985 you wondered how the aquarium industry could neglect such a beautiful fish, and in 1998, expressed concern that over-zealous collectors might add to their woes. And to think you learned about them in my home town! Let's hope Phil gets it down to a science soon!
A.T. What a salesman! You have me wanting to collect them now! It's interesting how times change: in 1985 you wondered how the aquarium industry could neglect such a beautiful fish, and in 1998, expressed concern that over-zealous collectors might add to their woes. And to think you learned about them in my home town! Let's hope Phil gets it down to a science soon!
#11
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Posted 19 July 2008 - 03:01 PM
Fry
At first, I was removing the Welaka fry with a fine mesh aquarium net. After the third day, doing figure 8's with the fine net killed the Welaka fry. I had to contrive a way to scoop out the fry.
The Welaka fry hung out 1 to 2 inches below surface.
Phil, have you considered using a large, clear plastic container at the waters surface to suck in fry and water? I did this in the past with newly hatched flagfish and bluefin killies. I did not have to scoop up plants, stir up detritus, and the fry never came into contact with netting or left the water. I simply would just press the container under the surface slightly and check out what got sucked in. I'd imagine it might take a while in a larger pond but would be worth the effort for having no mortality associated with netting and removal from water.
#12
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Posted 19 July 2008 - 03:39 PM
Congrats Phil. Do the fry hide out in floating vegetation? If so maybe create something like a clear plastic flower pot drainage bowl attached to a piece of foam by fishing line or yarn above it so the top of the bowl hangs submerged just a couple of inches fill it with some leafy plants let it float around the pond (or several of them) check frequently for hiding fry. May have to add some weight to keep the bowl submerged. Would need to remove any killies or other fish that might take up residence in or refuge in the plants.Fry
At first, I was removing the Welaka fry with a fine mesh aquarium net. After the third day, doing figure 8's with the fine net killed the Welaka fry. I had to contrive a way to scoop out the fry.
The Welaka fry hung out 1 to 2 inches below surface. I fed paramecium, vinegar eels, and live baby brine shrimp. By 6/29, the Welaka were going deeper for food.
By 7/7, the Welaka were eating like pigs. Now, I am trying to wean the Welaka onto crumbled flake food.
#13
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Posted 19 July 2008 - 05:01 PM
Counting the dead, there were 80 Welaka fry. (70 alive)
The pond had
300 gallons of water
3 Dollar Sunfish adults
7 Welaka adults
1 huge piece of driftwood
Elodea and Pondweed growing from the submerged planter
Welaka fry
15 floating mops
and hundreds of sunfish fry.
I had to stop netting the fry.
I was going to make a version of a slurp-gun.
Finally,
I removed the floating stuff
and swept a seine slowly through the entire pond,
but instead of a net, I used a bedsheet.
Scooped everything out when there was only 4 gallons left in the sheet.
Then I had to pour the Welaka off of the Sunfish
and / or
suck the sunfish out with airline tubing.
The pond had
300 gallons of water
3 Dollar Sunfish adults
7 Welaka adults
1 huge piece of driftwood
Elodea and Pondweed growing from the submerged planter
Welaka fry
15 floating mops
and hundreds of sunfish fry.
I had to stop netting the fry.
I was going to make a version of a slurp-gun.
Finally,
I removed the floating stuff
and swept a seine slowly through the entire pond,
but instead of a net, I used a bedsheet.
Scooped everything out when there was only 4 gallons left in the sheet.
Then I had to pour the Welaka off of the Sunfish
and / or
suck the sunfish out with airline tubing.
#16
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Posted 19 July 2008 - 09:58 PM
I hate to ask a dumb question, though at this point, I believe I might have a reputation to maintain, so I will anyway.
Have you ever considered raising them in a wine barrel?
I ask, because, I have a friend who has a winery and he lets me have as many of the old leaky casks my ever Sainted husband is willing to load up and bring home. He cuts the tops out for me and the slats magically readjust, and 9 out of 10 will hold water without anything else being done. The moment I spy mosquito larva, I toss in the ten for a dollar goldfish. Goldfish are not picky and they survive almost any thing. Had the last batch for a number of years, but we had one freeze too many this year and I had to start fresh.
Anyway, if you can make Black Water from boiling oak leaves, I would think an oak barrel would be just the place for them. Maybe you could try it with the sun fish first. If not, I might try it with Pumpkinseeds next Spring. (Can't sooner because we may be moving soon and I'm trying not to collect pets at the moment.)
Have you ever considered raising them in a wine barrel?
I ask, because, I have a friend who has a winery and he lets me have as many of the old leaky casks my ever Sainted husband is willing to load up and bring home. He cuts the tops out for me and the slats magically readjust, and 9 out of 10 will hold water without anything else being done. The moment I spy mosquito larva, I toss in the ten for a dollar goldfish. Goldfish are not picky and they survive almost any thing. Had the last batch for a number of years, but we had one freeze too many this year and I had to start fresh.
Anyway, if you can make Black Water from boiling oak leaves, I would think an oak barrel would be just the place for them. Maybe you could try it with the sun fish first. If not, I might try it with Pumpkinseeds next Spring. (Can't sooner because we may be moving soon and I'm trying not to collect pets at the moment.)
#18
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Posted 20 July 2008 - 05:11 PM
Did you observe the spawning act of wekala? I wonder if they spawn independently and noting related to sunfish in your pond?
I have never seen the female Welakas show any interest in spawning in my tanks. I did not see anything except aggressive Dollar Sunfish in the pond; aggressive because the sunfish were in spawning mode.
Edited by uniseine, 20 July 2008 - 05:30 PM.
#19
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Posted 20 July 2008 - 05:17 PM
I added a picture to my NANFA Photo Gallery.
AND
I learned from teleost how to post those pics here.
(In the NANFA Photo Gallery, Right click on the image, get the URL from Properties, then copy and past the URL by clicking on Insert Image link here in the Forum.)
I think these fish are just past peak spawning condition.
I like this pick because it shows the spangles on the male.
AND
I learned from teleost how to post those pics here.
(In the NANFA Photo Gallery, Right click on the image, get the URL from Properties, then copy and past the URL by clicking on Insert Image link here in the Forum.)
I think these fish are just past peak spawning condition.
I like this pick because it shows the spangles on the male.
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