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would like a positive ID

Started by Guest_hmt321_* , Sep 08 2008 08:47 PM

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#1 Guest_hmt321_*

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 08:47 PM

I acquired this bullhead in may of 07, it was about 1" long

I was under the assumption it was a spotted bullhead (it was an extra in a ghost shrimp shipment to a LFS in Pensacola FL)

I never saw it eat until Feb 08, and it has started growing fast.

I think it may be a flat bullhead, but i am unsure

check out these 2 picts

Posted Image

and here

It is currently in a 75 gal with a warmouth and 2 fat sleepers

I have a RUGF running and a drip system that changes out 12 gal of water per day

nitrates stay low, just a slight bit of color, possibly 10 ppm

anyway what do i have here? Flat or spotted

#2 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 09:49 PM

Its a spotted bullhead Ameiurus serracanthus, no other bullhead will have greyish-silvery-whitish spots like that. But then again, I never seen one of these in flesh, but Peterson's Field Guide is my friend! And that is one lucky find!

Blake

Edited by blakemarkwell, 08 September 2008 - 09:50 PM.

#3 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 07:45 AM

I agree with Blake. It's definitely not a flat bullhead since it is lacking the dorsal base smudge and it just doesn't look right. Like Blake said, the only bullhead with that spotting pattern is a spotted.

#4 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 08:48 AM

Be ready for rapid growth. I got one of these babies out of a ghost shrimp tank at about 1'' long. In 8 months he was a foot long. REALLY cool fish though. I wish I hadn't have had to get rid of him.

#5 Guest_hmt321_*

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 01:16 PM

This fish hardly grew at all until Jan of this year (about 7 months after i got it) now it has put on at least 3" in 8 months.

#6 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 09 September 2008 - 08:09 PM

I'm sure others are right... but just for discussion and devils advocate type stufff... it looks just like the brown bullhead that was in the disply tank in the Mingo Swamp nature center (or whatever it was called) in Missouri at the convention. Apparently, brown bullheads from the area have this sort of pattern... I'm no expert, but I do remember the fish... so I am going to say it is a brown bullhead.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#7 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 08:37 PM

Brown bullhead do get spots on occasion, however their spots are almost always brownish-black spots, these metallic silver spots are key signs to a spotted bullhead.

Blake

#8 Guest_mzokan_*

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 09:27 PM

I'll support Michael on this one ...... A spotted bullhead should have a prominant dark blotch at the dorsal fin base and noticable dark edging on the fins, so I say brown bullhead. I haven't been lucky enough to see a spotted before though. Either way, its a nice-looking fish

Marcus

#9 Guest_hmt321_*

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 06:49 AM

would the black edges on the fins be present even in a juvenile?

also barbels are black could it be a black bullhead?

#10 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 05:32 PM

Can I weigh in here?

#11 Guest_butch_*

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 06:01 PM

I'm sure others are right... but just for discussion and devils advocate type stufff... it looks just like the brown bullhead that was in the disply tank in the Mingo Swamp nature center (or whatever it was called) in Missouri at the convention. Apparently, brown bullheads from the area have this sort of pattern... I'm no expert, but I do remember the fish... so I am going to say it is a brown bullhead.

No its not brown bullhead, isn't that they supposed to have MOTTLED patterns instead of spotted patterns?
I would say its 100% Spotted bullhead.

#12 Guest_hmt321_*

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 06:49 PM

its going to die!!!

I beat you to it, Irate, Haaa

seriously though the black edges of the fins are missing, which is why i thought it could be a flat bullhead

#13 Guest_BullHeadsrdfish_*

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 08:56 PM

It looks like a regular Brown Bullhead to me. That color strain is actually fairly common. Infact, I have collected and kept Browns that look identical to yours. The mouth and head shape is perfectly typical in my opinion for a Brown Bullhead.
I am almost certain it is not a Black Bullhead; Coloration, and general shape are against that ID.

#14 Guest_butch_*

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 09:29 PM

I find it hard to believe that this fish are actually brown bullhead. If so then why this brown bullhead has silver spots which it usually found in spotted bullheads? In Peterson's field to freshwater fishes say that only bullhead have silver spots and that's spotted bullhead.

Shape of the mouth and head are terrible to ID'ed bullhead.

#15 Guest_hmt321_*

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 10:09 PM

The fish does not appear to have any "large sawlike teeth on rear of pectoral spine" (direct quote from Peterson Field Guide, pg 195)

the saw like teeth would be an indication of a brown

but

I am not sure if they would even be on a fish of this size (approximately 3.5" - 4" long, obviously a juvenile) would have these.

The base of the dorsal does appear to have a darker area (but the fish is small enough that the fins are mostly translucent, and the fin is at its thickest there)

also, the fish is defiantly in a growth spurt since I moved in the new house. (drip system and RUGF equal improved water quality and appetite)

the fish will grow and time will tell

I hope it turns out to be a spotted or flat, but if it is a brown or black it can become the Leviathan in my parents kio pond.

Edited by hmt321, 10 September 2008 - 10:11 PM.

#16 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 09:51 AM

its going to die!!!

I beat you to it, Irate, Haaa

Actually I was going to state with 90% certainty what kind of fish it is. But now I'll just leave you guessing :tongue:

#17 Guest_midge_*

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 01:34 PM

..................green sunfish?

I have never seen a brown bullhead had such a light pattern, they get dark blotched mottled colors not light spots, I'm going with spotted

Edited by midge, 12 September 2008 - 01:36 PM.

#18 Guest_BullHeadsrdfish_*

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 08:40 PM

Butch, with all due respect head and body shape are one of the most reliable ways to ID Bullheads. Different species of Bullhead have different head/body shapes and the differences are especially pronounced in juveniles. Once you learn to distinguish them by shape, IDing them becomes fairly straightforward.

hmt321 I can say with 80% Certainty that you have a Brown Bullhead.

#19 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 11:20 PM

I'm not venturing an actual ID here, but I would say that body geometry is a lot more conservative of a characteristic to ID a fish with than color, which as we all know can vary wildly. Having said that...my 90% beats Dan's 80%! Oh wait, I didn't actually SAY what my 90% positive ID was...

#20 Guest_fishlvr_*

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 12:46 AM

That's a brown. I've personally caught several browns that look just like that, and some with even more brilliant patterning than that.
Here's a spotted. The spots are more white than silvery on spotteds, on brown bullheads they are almost silver like the one posted.
http://gwsphotos.com/images/908.JPG

Edit: the spotting on a spotted bullhead has more pattern than the randomness of the spots on a brown bullhead.

Edited by fishlvr, 28 September 2008 - 12:46 AM.