Neosho smallmouth ?

I was looking at one report earlier and it only showed smallmouth stocking in 1993. I have misplaced it at the moment.

This report only showes two stockings but both in 1990. Makes it kind of confusing.

Thanks, Lawrence county is not far from me, Ill have to call the MDC and see if they can tell me which streams support native smallmouth.

Spring, Center, and White Oak.

I was looking at one report earlier and it only showed smallmouth stocking in 1993. I have misplaced it at the moment.

This report only showes two stockings but both in 1990. Makes it kind of confusing.

Sorry, I guess I didn't get the link to post. Here it is C&P'ed:

Table 1. Stocking record for Tenkiller Reservoir from 1982.

Date

Species

Number

Size (inches)

1982

Threadfin Shad

4,000

3”-4”

1988

Threadfin Shad

10,344

3”-4”

1989

Threadfin Shad

3,790

3”-4”

1989

Walleye

129,000

Fingerling

1989

Florida LMB (Intergrade)

65,830

Fingerling

1990

Threadfin Shad

6,400

3”-4”

1990

Walleye

128,300

Fingerling

1990

Tenn. Strain SMB

32,900

Fry

1990

Tenn. Strain SMB

12,112

Fry

1991

Walleye

850,000

Fry

1994

Florida LMB (Certified)

20,000

Fingerling

1995

Florida LMB (Certified)

20,022

3”

1996

Walleye

53,500

1.25”

1997

Walleye

65,500

1.25”

1998

Walleye

42,000

1.25”

Attached are Tenkiller Lake's stocking records for the time period in question. If it was stocked in 1993, we aren't aware of it. The 1991 stocking was mistakenly left out of the report you are referencing.

Perhaps the 1993 stocking was at Broken Bow Reservior?

 Tenkiller stocking.jpg   124.44KB   0 downloads

Edited by bbrown, 16 January 2013 - 10:06 AM.

No assumptions. Even though the two strains may be spawning in same reach, hybridization may not be occuring. Conformation through genetics needed either way.

Attached are Tenkiller Lake's stocking records for the time period in question. If it was stocked in 1993, we aren't aware of it. The 1991 stocking was mistakenly left out of the report you are referencing.

Perhaps the 1993 stocking was at Broken Bow Reservior?

 Tenkiller stocking.jpg   124.44KB   0 downloads

Thanks! Yes it was. Here is what it had on Broken Bow:


Smallmouth Bass
A genetic survey across the natural range of smallmouth bass conducted in the 1990s demonstrated that the native populations in eastern Oklahoma represent the two most divergent lineages of the species; referred to as the Ouachita and Neosho smallmouth bass (Stark and Echelle 1998). The ODWC previously stocked “Tennessee lake strain” smallmouth bass into Broken Bow Lake in 1993. Based on an allozyme survey by Stark el al. (1995), the ODWC discontinued stockings over concerns of losing genetic diversity. The genome of the Broken Bow Lake population is about 40% non-native. A small amount (3%) of non-native material has made its way into the Mountain Fork River. The upper end of Broken Bow Lake acts as a partial barrier to dispersal. However, increased introgression of the “lake strain” into the tributaries is likely to occur. The quality of the smallmouth bass fishery may be dependent on the growth and survival of the “lake-strain” or F₁ hybrid (Boxrucker et al. 2004). Smallmouth bass total abundance is currently below recommended levels. Zero quality sized smallmouth bass were collected during the spring electrofishing survey. Relative weights are acceptable for the 10-12 inch group. Age and growth results from the 2004 study are included in Table 9. Otoliths were also collected from 15 smallmouth bass during the 2009 electrofishing sample and evaluated for age and growth (Table 7 and Figure 7). In 2009, mean length at ages 2-3 resembled spotted bass results. Age/growth data from the 2004 survey shows lengths of individual ages from Broken Bow Lake and the Mountain Fork River are statistically different. By age 4, “Lake” smallmouth bass mean lengths were 5 inches longer than the “River” smallmouth bass. Catch rates and size structure of smallmouth bass are included in Table 10 and Figure 6, respectively. The current lake record smallmouth bass weighs 5.7 lbs. (22 inches long) caught on 2-9-2008 by Chuck Tillman. Broken Bow produced two former state record smallmouth bass that weighed 5.1 lbs. and 5.6 lbs., in 1980 and 1983, respectively.

One thing I noticed further down in the report was during the srping shocking, they didn't shock any smallmouth bigger than 12". Very odd.


Were lakes the only areas that were stocked with Smallmouth??? They didn't stock any streams did they??

One other bit that concerns me, not that I don't believe it, but I am from Missouri, so you know that means you have to show me, is that it is my understanding of the Neosho, that is was so named because basically it was from tribs that fed the Neosho river. Some of the areas that ODWC claims has the Neosho strain are, are outside that territory.

Edited by Chief, 16 January 2013 - 04:01 PM.

No assumptions. Even though the two strains may be spawning in same reach, hybridization may not be occuring. Conformation through genetics needed either way.

It is known that in the Meramec system in eastern Missouri where the Spotted bass was not native but has now found it way into that system, Spots and native Smallmouth have hybridized. It is being called a Meanmouth bass.

*sorry, hit the button too soon

So there is no doubt that different species of smallmouth would spawn. Otherwise, the ODWC would probably not be worried about the stocking of non-native smallmouth.

Edited by Chief, 16 January 2013 - 04:06 PM.

May be wrong, but meanmouth as far as I know is general slang for spotted bass, no hybridization involved.

May be wrong, but meanmouth as far as I know is general slang for spotted bass, no hybridization involved.

This should help.

http://www.fishin.co...s/meanmouth.htm

I have personally seen the spotted x smallmouth bass hybrids. To me they appear pink-orange. Also made hybrids between spotted and largemouth. They cross easily when not given other options but do not cross in most natural systems most of time. Even though those populations repressenting smallmouth bass and spotted bass hybridize cross does not mean all smallmouth bass populations will cross when coming together. Similar examples of that exists with other potential pairings out there.

Caught in "Low densities", I guess I must have been extremely lucky because out of 3 bass I caught on the Meremac several years ago 2 were what we call Meanmouths or hybrid spotted/smallmouth bass.

I appreciate the info chief....this gives me a good excuse to make a trip to check out the spring river

I appreciate the info chief....this gives me a good excuse to make a trip to check out the spring river

Heck yeah. Let me know and I'll join you!!

I looked into this a bit further and contacted the ODWC and this was the response:

Justin,
Oklahoma is home to two genetically distinct populations of smallmouth bass: the Neosho strain and the Ouachita strain. For Neosho strain, Spring Creek and Baron Fork Creek in northeast Oklahoma have the best populations, with Baron Fork Creek being the most accessible to the public. Baron Fork Creek is a tributary to the Illinois River and the best place for public access is a bridge crossing at Welling, OK (near Tahlequah, OK). Spring Creek flows into Fort Gibson Lake and is located near Locus Grove, OK, but is almost completely surrounded by private land where access is gained by land owner permission.

For the Ouachita strain, the Little River, Upper Mountain Fork River (above Broken Bow Lake) and Glover River in Pushmataha & McCurtain Counties in southeast OK have good populations. The southeast rivers are accessible, but much of the area is controlled by timber companies and may require a special access permit (Honobia Creek & Three Rivers WMA's) to get to some points on the rivers. Much of the Glover River is located within US Forest Service land and is the last free flowing river in the state (best chance for pure Ouachita strain fish).

Hope this information helps.

Regards,
Chris Whisenhunt
Fisheries Biologist
Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation
P.O. Box 1201
Jenks, OK 74037
Phone: (918) 299-2334
Mobile: (918) 680-2687
Fax: (918) 299-7508
e-mail: streamfishinok@yahoo.com

Edited by Snookman, 03 June 2013 - 05:11 PM.