There seems to be a general grouping of small, moderately-compressed headwater-dwelling minnows as dace, strongly-compressed silvery minnows as shiners, and larger terete minnows as chubs, but this is not at all consistent, especially when you compare NA usages to European usages- the European dace is large enough to be a food fish. Some big terete minnows like fallfish and pikeminnows are sometimes called 'dace', while the tiny spring-dwelling Hemitremia is called a 'chub'.

This seems to be the kind of answer Josh was looking for. (Josh, please tell me if I'm way off on that.)

My take on some of the other posts is that lots of folks here are very intelligent and some are well-educated about fish (I don't even know what a related degree is called, sorry for the ignorance). And when you have a wealth of information to share, it can get difficult to try to summarize. I think some people on this forum could write books on subjects like this. For them to narrow it all down to a few sentences is almost painful.

Hope I don't get too much hate mail now. Just my two cents.

Edited by Jeff, 29 October 2008 - 06:49 PM.

This seems to be the kind of answer Josh was looking for. (Josh, please tell me if I'm way off on that.)

My take on some of the other posts is that lots of folks here are very intelligent and some are well-educated about fish (I don't even know what a related degree is called, sorry for the ignorance). And when you have a wealth of information to share, it can get difficult to try to summarize. I think some people on this forum could write books on subjects like this. For them to narrow it all down to a few sentences is almost painful.

Hope I don't get too much hate mail now. Just my two cents.

Jeff, I think you hit the nail on the head . For the record, I'm not one of the guys that could write a book on any subject but summarizing even for me can be difficult.

Jeff, I think you hit the nail on the head . For the record, I'm not one of the guys that could write a book on any subject but summarizing even for me can be difficult.

can we all get along now?
but Jeff you did leave out some of us other peeps here like my self
all i want to do is keep my little fishes alive be it the silver ones or the blues
I like them all tha'ts why I'm here.
I'm CATfishTONY and I support this statement

Edited by CATfishTONY, 29 October 2008 - 07:11 PM.

can we all get along now?
but Jeff you did leave out some of us other peeps here like my self
all i want to do is keep my little fishes alive be it the silver ones or the blues
I like them all tha'ts why I'm here.
I'm CATfishTONY and I support this statement

OK, didn't mean to leave anyone out. And by the way, that link you posted is intense. Gotta check that out further one of these days.

Sorry if my sarcastic reply added to the impression this was becoming a strife ridden thread. I can get a little cranky when I feel the academic types is lokkin down on us egnerant slobs.

I didn't see the question as one that could be answered in a university library [that many of us will never access]. Seemed more of a common name/slang type issue. I don't know if there even are any books that explain how common names and slang experessions are assigned to a given animal or group. Seems like there is no system, it's kinda random and full of exceptions. Therein being the reason academic types dislike common names so much. It can get confusing.

You may have noticed by now I typically use common names rather than scientific. A small part of that is me being rebelious and contrary, but mostly it's because I have enough trouble spelling easy words let alone latin or greek. I try to only use common names that are universally recognized across the country and stay away from the more localized slang words [i.e. Bluegill is OK, kivver is not]. If I think there would be confusion I will use both common and scientific names.
On this forum, I'd expect almost anyone to have a mental image of what is a shiner vs what is a dace. Outside the world of fish nerds, it's not so simple.

On this forum, I'd expect almost anyone to have a mental image of what is a shiner vs what is a dace.

Well, I sure don't. I'd love to know the etymology of the word "dace". Well, OK (Google), it appears to be a form of the word "dart". So, what are darters, then??

They dart.

Darters are perch because they perch.

I'm not looking for a lecture, or a smart comment...save them both.

It was a general question, and if there's no general answer that's fine. I understand that there are complexities concerning the taxomony of fish, and it I decided to study those, I will do so.

OHHH!!!! in this corner wearing white trunks with minnow logo........

OHHH!!!! in this corner wearing white trunks with minnow logo........

That was funny...way to insert some humor into this thread.

That was funny...way to insert some humor into this thread.

Im not really sure why it is, probably just all of us had a bad day sometime, and tend to snip out when it becomes available, BUT !!! Gentlemen, which by the most part all of you fish guys are, Educated or not, Please just keep the info coming, I for one dont need long drawn out scientific explanations, and sometimes if you say JUST BECAUSE, it works for me

Im not really sure why it is, probably just all of us had a bad day sometime, and tend to snip out when it becomes available, BUT !!! Gentlemen, which by the most part all of you fish guys are, Educated or not, Please just keep the info coming, I for one dont need long drawn out scientific explanations, and sometimes if you say JUST BECAUSE, it works for me

It was funny, but just to be clear, my trunks have a shiner logo....assuming there's a difference

Edited by jblaylock, 31 October 2008 - 02:59 PM.

Just remember, all shiners are minnows but not all minnows are shiners, right?

Dace is originally a German word I believe.

Origin: Written also dare, dart, fr. F. Dard dase, dart, of German origin. Dace is for an older darce, fr. An OF. Nom. Darz. See Dart a javelin.

Source: Websters Dictionary

Well, English is derived from German, so yeah - back to "dart"! They're fast little suckers, IOW. BTW, what is a "sucker"?

A sucker gets a shiner if he perches on the wrong dace.

I'll trot out my own uneducated opinion, from personal observations of what I find in various streams...

Chub: ugly little minnow that's hard to kill, eats like a pig and turns into an ugly big minnow. Got a creek full of them on my farm.

Shiner: pretty little minnow that's easy to kill, eats like a pig, and turns into a fat little minnow. Already I've learned not to try and ID a shiner from a photo of a tank kept shiner, it'll be a lot fatter than what's found in streams.

Dace: interesting minnow that I can't seem to find.

Darter: Very pretty little fish that darts around and has me driving into E or S KY almost every weekend.

Sucker: me, looking at a new filtration system.

Sunfish: Flat, spines on the back, smart enough to know what a cup of bloodworms in my hand is. Doesn't like any sunfish that's smaller than it is.

Sculpin: ugly, not much personality, eats anything that will fit in it's huge mouth, can find its way into tiny streams.

Idiot: oh dear, I seem to have fallen into the creek again.