Percina roanoka, roanoke darter

Was wondering if anyone knows anything about these darters, both from a captive point of view and/or natural observations in the field.

I know from the limited info online that they are "typical" gravel spawners that uses sand and gravel in strong current near large rubble to breed and that breeding starts at 12C.

I know from observing the little group I have is that they swim midwater much of the time, in the strongest current, and have no problem joining the mixed school of fast moving shiners and dace.

What I'm wondering [having never seen them wild myself], is; do they school together in midwater? How many in a group?
Do they mix with the minnow schools in the wild?
Any observations at all on breeding behavior, wild or captive.

I've had these fish for over a year now [I think?] and to tell ya the truth, they've kind of just blended into the background. When they swim midwater, they disappear amidst the shiners and dace. When they drop to the bottom, the rainbow darters overshadow [and chase] the roanokes.

Then all of a sudden I had a few stolen minutes sit and do some tank watching [as opposed to tank chores], and I noticed the roanokes have started to color up. No raving beauties, they're still pretty nice looking. The male's almost solid black with a greenish tinge. Made me wonder if they might be fun to play with as a breeding experiment. Doesn't seem to be much info out there on them.

I have a group in my 180g stream tank. Mine seem to stay closer to bottom, maybe because I don't have many minnows in there, but come up during feeding time. My males are usually darkened up and they usually don't hang out together.

We find females and juveniles in shallow water and the bigger males in deeper, faster moving runs with bigger rocks. We plan on snorkeling the location where we find them this year so I can give you a better answer on where in the column they hang out but we really only get them when we're kicking for them and not dragging.

I have a number of darter species and have the same experience as you with the roanokes getting bullied. The biggest male does chase though when he is jet black.

Maybe Matt can get that underwater cam this year and we can get some video footage.

Oh yeah, we get them where they aren't supposed to be. Apparently they filled a niche and kicked out most other darters. The only other darter we find near them are fantail darters.

Thanks!
These fish get more interesting the more I look at them.

Was wondering if anyone knows anything about these darters, both from a captive point of view and/or natural observations in the field.

I know from the limited info online that they are "typical" gravel spawners that uses sand and gravel in strong current near large rubble to breed and that breeding starts at 12C.

I know from observing the little group I have is that they swim midwater much of the time, in the strongest current, and have no problem joining the mixed school of fast moving shiners and dace.

What I'm wondering [having never seen them wild myself], is; do they school together in midwater? How many in a group?
Do they mix with the minnow schools in the wild?
Any observations at all on breeding behavior, wild or captive.

I've had these fish for over a year now [I think?] and to tell ya the truth, they've kind of just blended into the background. When they swim midwater, they disappear amidst the shiners and dace. When they drop to the bottom, the rainbow darters overshadow [and chase] the roanokes.

Then all of a sudden I had a few stolen minutes sit and do some tank watching [as opposed to tank chores], and I noticed the roanokes have started to color up. No raving beauties, they're still pretty nice looking. The male's almost solid black with a greenish tinge. Made me wonder if they might be fun to play with as a breeding experiment. Doesn't seem to be much info out there on them.

Mike,
I've caught Roanokes in Virginia twice I think the first time was in mid May and another time in September both times I found them common in shallow riffles and not so often in slower pools and runs. I wrote up a quick report the first time after getting home for the nanfa list I believe. Here's that mini report:

Had a great trip through Va and in NE South Carolina. I stopped at Stony Creek in VA on the way south Sat late morning. Had a tough time getting shiners with a ten foot seine by myself but I did the riffles with my dipnet and got several nice Roanoke Darters. Got em all home alive, put them in a twenty high with sand and stone substrate, good number of rooted plants. Within an hour they were in a breeding frenzy. Some larger shiners were starting to nose into the gravel I assume to snack on caviar, so I removed them. Smaller shiners appeared to not notice and when they occassionally swam to low the male roanokes would quickly move them back to higher water! Three males seemed to be active one about 1.75 inch, one about 1.25 in and the last about .75 in. great colors. The little guy was getting more action then the larger two mostly while they were chasing each other. The active females would slide between small stones and just lie on top of the sand or smaller gravel and wait for a male, if one came close they would sometimes flick their tail fin or their snout as if to say hey big boy I'm over here. A male would sometimes come from the front nudging the female on top of her head, then might lie across her forming a cross but eventually lieing on top head to head tail to tail. The male would wrap his tail around one side of the females tail and his head along side her head on the opposite side in kind of a weak S shape. Then they'd both start a frenzied vibrating which lasted 2-3 seconds. Meanwhile sand would be flying and I assume eggs deposited and fertilized. I wonder if the little guy is capable, though he was colored up though not quite as nice as the other two. The active females coloration changed to kind of dark brown bars/spots on a medium gray backgound. The less active females background color was lighter and the spots more blackish and less like bars. Actually they were also somewhat thinner and may not be roanokes at all. They would get in the frenzy at times with the male roanokes taking all action offered. I saw the larger male get two females at once at least twice, one time two females waited side by side the other time just as the male and a female began a second female snuck right along side and under the male and all three vibrated wildly. I'd been up with little sleep since Friday so when I attempted to get the eggs out of the sand I saw some eggs but had major problems keeping them in sight so I abandoned that and hope some eggs survive any possible predation. I'll be moving the fish tonight. On my last trip to W Mart I was intrigued by the clear plastic paint tray liners and picked one up as a possible tray to hold sand/gravel for darter spawning so it could be easily removed after spawing. But I haven't yet tested it to ensure it is not toxic to fish. Hopefully I can condition them up again soon as my basement is still some what cool and try the tray method. Got some nice fish in SC as well and nicer weather on Sunday but for now gotta go move some fish.

The males get brilliantly colorful even in my tanks, still have a number of them, very hardy and easy to feed, compete well in my 55 g community with bluebreast darters, mt redbelly dace, rosyside dace and striped shiners. They have spawned a number of times both in the 55 gallon community above and in a 20 long also with multple darters and shiners. Never had time to actually raise them. They are gravel spawners similar to rainbows but females don't seem to go as deep into the gravel or sand as rainbows but are barely in the substrate but when the male mounts and the act occurs substrate flys.

The riffle areas both in spring and fall were very shallow often only about 6 inches or less deep. Also caught some at the NC convention in similar conditions but found decent numbers in deeper runs as well as riffles.

Wow!
I was thinking I might pick up a few details, if I was lucky!
That info should have come up first in my google search. There is very little info out there.
Good stuff, thanks!


I'm thinkin my roanokes might just get moved out of the community tank for some fattin' up.


Edited to add: Mike, wasn't it you who had the lottery where I got the roanokes in the first place?

Edited by mikez, 17 February 2009 - 12:38 AM.

Wow!
I was thinking I might pick up a few details, if I was lucky!
That info should have come up first in my google search. There is very little info out there.
Good stuff, thanks!


I'm thinkin my roanokes might just get moved out of the community tank for some fattin' up.


Edited to add: Mike, wasn't it you who had the lottery where I got the roanokes in the first place?

Yes it was, glad to hear you're enjoying them.

One of my favorite fish!

Roanokes are the most benthicly oriented Percina I've worked with and/or observed in the wild. A close second would be the bronze darter, Percina palmaris, but I think the crown goes to roanoka. I've found them in about all habitats surrounding riffles, but the most dense populations I've encountered have been found in shallow riffles with lot of "8x8x1 inch" cover stones armoring the surface of the riffle.

I think Drew's observation that they occur only with fantail can be somewhat attributed to the depauperate darter community... In the Neuse, I find glassy darter and chainback darter right in with them. But the dominant species in the darter community is definately held by the Roanokes and fantail.

My aquarium observations have been similar to both Drew and Mike's, they're not the bossiest, they can end up not getting enough food, but if you supply enough, they'll do really well. How much is "enough"? It'd be a lot more simple to keep them healthy in a tank with some Phoxinus, Lythrurus and Notropis rather than with Cyprinella and Luxilus, if that might illustrate their habits.

Todd

Roanokes are the most benthicly oriented Percina I've worked with and/or observed in the wild.

I'm confused. My understanding of benthic was "living on the bottom". My observation of roanokes was they often leave the bottom. Do I misunderstand the term?

Your understanding of benthic is perfectly fine I think what is misleading you is likely your lack of experience with Percina sp. Many Percina sp. spend very little time on the bottom at all. What Todd was saying is that compared to other percina sp. roanoke darters spend more time on the bottom than most of them. I had some briefly after the NC convention but left for another trip imeadiately after that one and my apartment I had at the time got way to hot and they didn't last long. Anyways, I would agree that they did spend more time on the bottom than most Percina. The species that comes to mind as the complete opposite is the frecklebelly darter. They never sit on the botom, they swim around and even sit completely still mid water column much like a yellow perch or even a sunfish just waving their pectoral fins.

I think what is misleading you is likely your lack of experience with Percina sp. Many Percina sp. spend very little time on the bottom at all.

Yep, you are correct.
I did not realize ANY darters left the bottom until I saw the roanokes.
I had no idea there were a bunch, or that the roanokes could be considered "more benthic" than the others.

Todd's remarks now make perfect sense to me.

The real basic explanation is the genus Percina have well developed air bladders (the degree varies of course) and the genus Etheostoma have poorly developed air bladders so they sink and or have little to no ability to hold position in the water column with out constantly working at it.

Sorry for the confusion Mike and thanks for clarifying it Brian

Man, you need to get you some dusky or frecklebelly darter, if you've never watched darters "hover"! If you took the average distance their belly was from a substrate and compared that with the average distance a Macrhybopsis or Eristymax chub was from the substrate, I bet the chubs will end up more aligned with the bottom than the darters lol.

Unfortunately for the minners, they never get a break like the darters do. Gotta swim, gotta swim, gotta swim!!

Todd

Does the swim bladder/mid-water habit have significance in raising up fry?
I'm thinkin calmer water and maybe shallow depth at swim up time?
I wonder if the fry will be easier to feed where as they [theoretically] would cover more water column.

It might for the more lentic species, but for something as lotic as Roanokes, my guess is no. It would be good to hear Bob Mullers thoughts on this, but I don't think he uses the Forum. You might email him directly.

Todd

I know CFI initially had trouble with swim up fry mortality of P. caprodes and P. burtoni that they eventually overcame.

Of the two percina I've kept, the frecklebellies would rarely sit on a rock, never on the bottom. The dusky, on the other hand, only left the bottom during feeding time.

Hey Mike, how would you describe the gravel/sand you saw the roanokes use?
Size? Mixed sizes? Beach sand size? Store bought gravel size?

My tanks have been at season lows ~ 50 - 55 F for a few weeks now. I need to get my portable "gravel run" made up while I get my portable "chub nest" ready for the SRBD [before they burst].

The darter females, roanoke and rainbow, that I hope to use are not looking very full, although showing color. Competition is too much. I need to get them seperated and fattened up before temps start going up outside [and in my cellar].

Hey Mike, how would you describe the gravel/sand you saw the roanokes use?
Size? Mixed sizes? Beach sand size? Store bought gravel size?

My tanks have been at season lows ~ 50 - 55 F for a few weeks now. I need to get my portable "gravel run" made up while I get my portable "chub nest" ready for the SRBD [before they burst].

The darter females, roanoke and rainbow, that I hope to use are not looking very full, although showing color. Competition is too much. I need to get them seperated and fattened up before temps start going up outside [and in my cellar].

A base of sand with a scattering of small gravel and small stones (pea to thumbnail size)