29 replies to this topic

[farmertodd]

...but I don't know about about the head shape.

Hognose can flatten their head to look like a viper as another part of their elaborate cache of methods to avoid dealing with a predator.

Still, I wouldn't stand behind any ID until Newt, Neely or Schlueter (ie a qualified herper) have chimed in. My tentative ID only jumped out at me because I've dealt with a lot of hognose in all the prairie work I've done (including the Gulf Coastal Plain, so it's probably more like "fire driven plant community" ).

Todd

[UncleWillie]

I finally got a chance to read through the whole thread - So, I just also wanted to add spectacular photos, narrative, I really enjoyed it. I certainly can see thecoyote and the rabbit in the clouds!
And as the snake goes, it does looks dead-on a dusky pygmy rattler IMO.

[ichthyskid]

I finally got a chance to read through the whole thread - So, I just also wanted to add spectacular photos, narrative, I really enjoyed it. I certainly can see thecoyote and the rabbit in the clouds!
And as the snake goes, it does looks dead-on a dusky pygmy rattler IMO.

Casper - Sure looks and sounds like y'all had a great time on the Tate's Hell/Carabelle trip! Wish I could have gone along. Great photos too... I love the cloud shots and interpretations. The snake pic that folks have been commenting on is, without a doubt, a pygmy rattler. The body color pattern, head and (in the net shot) the pit is clearly visible. On these snakes, especially young ones, the rattle is often very small or not present and unlike other rattlers, you typically cannot hear them rattle. They usually tend to be a bit on the pugnacious side, so you're lucky someone didn't get bit. Pretty snake though. Thanks for sharing.

- Brian Skidmore

[farmertodd]

On these snakes, especially young ones, the rattle is often very small or not present and unlike other rattlers, you typically cannot hear them rattle.

And this is exactly why I'm content to just go "snake" when I'm in the SE. Else it might be "Herp Eye for the Dead Guy"

Todd

[andyavram]

The snake is definately a Dusky Pygmy Rattlesnake. There is actually alot of speculation (and I stress speculation) that the Hognosed Snakes coloration is used to mimic the rattlesnakes. Either way they are in the same genus as Massasaugas and the only two species in the genus - Sistrurus. They have very small, almost unnoticable rattles and make a very weak buzzing sound if they decide to rattle.

Andy

[blakemarkwell]

Yeah, I knew about the mimicry of southern hognose and pygmy rattlesnakes. Even though the thing didn't appear to have a rattle, the things are dinky anyways. Plus the presence of the pit between the eyes and nostril lead me to poisonous snake without a doubt.

Blake

[andyavram]

Here is a pic of a Pygmy I found in Apalachacola National Forest a few years back. The snake was maybe 10" long and you can barely even make out the rattle. All 2 I saw that trip were quite fiesty and struck repeatedly.



If you are going to mess around with snakes, especially in the south and west, it is always important to know without a doubt the species before touching it. I am glad to hear the Casper didn't free handle the snake though.

Andy

[fundulus]

Hey Casper, about how long was this snake? I don't get a good sense of scale from your photos (pardon the possible pun). Andy's right that pygmy rattlers are strike-happy.

[Casper]

Well...
My my, lots of consideration and speculation from fishy folk, who would have thought?
I certainly dont have 2 punctures, blackened swelling and a hospital bill to prove it, but i think...
It must be...
And based upon what i have read, studied and gleaned...
By all accounts...
It most surely IS a...
and according to Ranger Bob who affirms this too...
a...

RattleHeadedCopperMoccasin.


Seriously what everyone was debating, is also how we debated while in Tates Hell. Hognose was the strongest, knowledgable ID by a couple fellas.
However while studying the pictures later, the slit eye, yes you can see it in the pics, but the lack of a rattler, is what was really throwing my determined ID. Also the head was not very triangular shaped, in my opinion.
My buddy David kept saying, and rather increasingly intensely i might add... "Its a Rattlesnake, put it down!" I eventually listened and tho i let it go im glad i have the pics now to study more.
It was about 18" long and the 14" wide net he is in was destroyed later by Pierre in his feverish quest to net another black speckled Chrysotus.

I was not too nerved to ease the camera close for a clik, as he was not in a strike mode or position, but what do i really know! Nonetheless i am pleased to be here with my fingers a normal coloration and plumpness.

Thanks everyone, that was fun. My alleigence is with Andy, Ranger Bob, Brian and Blake.
This snake, this day, was NOT strike happy. I was very gentle with him and patient and he was tolerant.
Andy your Appalachicola pic, just north of Tates Hell, is identical to my snakes color patterning. But your head's shape is much more venomous looking to my eye. Perhaps mine had recently pump purged his venom glands?
A read in Peterson's a few days ago also lead me to the Dusky Pygmy Rattler, but their terse description was weak especially in regards to the use of the words "dusted" and obscure. Their following page 408 shows a MO Western Pygmy which looks very similiar.
Good Job.

Always caution with snakes of unknown ID!

Oh yea... the clouds were real. NO photoshopping. It was spectacular. Great time. My intensions are to offer another trip in October 2011 and stay at the Marine Lab Beach House up to a week.

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