I need help with my bluegill

I have a 75 gallon tank with a 7 inch bluegill and an 11 inch largemouth. They have both been in there for about 8 months and have been great until now. The bass is fine, but the bluegill has been acting funny and isolating himself for the past two days, I just noticed today that all of his fins are starting to fray, could this be fin rot and if so, what do I do. The water tested good, but was a little high on the nitrate, so I did a 50% water change tonight. I know that I don't do water changes frequently enough, but I will from now on. My filtration is excellent. The bass has really been picking on the bluegill the last two days, he knows something is wrong with the bluegill, what should I do. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Besides keeping up on water changes, you are going to have to decide if you want a bluegill or a bass in that tank.

Well, I take that back, depends if you want to do more water changes. If you do, adding a few more sunfish types might help with aggression. Also having plenty of cover. Sometimes though ,nothing will help , a bully will be a bully regardless.

Largemouth normally get along pretty well with other fish they cannot eat ,versus smallmouth that in many cases seem to enjoy destroying any and all fish they can in the tank with them.

Trying two more bluegills, or other similar sized sunfish species could help. Space out that aggression. The bass might still be the dominant fish, but maybe not. I have to warn , you might end up after adding some fish having a worse bully yet in the mix.

This can really help you with the aggression thing. Look up cichlid aggression on the internet and read all the articles you can about curbing aggression in cichlids. These methods can all be adapted to sunfish/bass, and will often work well.

Odds are, that your poor water quality weakened the bluegill first, and the bass saw the opportunity. Sunfish all ugghhhh school ( I say ugh because its not the right term) well enough. The thing is, they are really all out for number one. If they can knock someone out of the pecking order all together because they are too weak to keep up, they will not hesitate. More food for them. The only time this normally doesn't happen is with really small sunfish, since the more the better the survival from predators.

Since your bluegill is more designed to slide around through thick cover than the bass, try adding some kind of cover that will help the bluegill, but hinder the bass. Gnarly driftwood, really gnarly, somthing that looks like a tumbleweed sort of. Half the tank atleast should be set up that the bluegill can slide through weeds ( plastic is fine) wood ( stay away from rocks for this, since a fleeing fish can get hurt on all but the smoothest rocks, which don't stack into formations well). After you have enough cover, feeding is important. This will put more emphasis on water changes, but happy tummies in sunfish make happier sunfish. That part takes awhile, for the sunfish to become accostomed to knowing there is always enough food. The next thing is the increasing the bluegill like fish in the tank. More fish give the bass more targets, but then he is not pounding on the same fish over and over. Or, he might give up all together. The bluegill may gain confidence with other fish around, especially if the bass doesn't make them nervous.

Kind of long there, but trying to throw out some options that have worked for me. Hope this is of some help.

...try adding some kind of cover... Gnarly driftwood, really gnarly, somthing that looks like a tumbleweed sort of. ...(stay away from rocks for this, since a fleeing fish can get hurt on all but the smoothest rocks, which don't stack into formations well).

So you're saying a fleeing fish can get injured on a rock, but not on "really gnarly" driftwood?

I would fry up the bass and get a couple pumpkinseeds. The bass is going to outgrow that in the next few months anyways. The bass probably started picking on the bluegill because he has quite some size on him now and saw the opportunity. I would deffinatly seperate them atleast. Personally though I would get rid of the bass (NOT by dumping him into a lake or river) and get a few more bluegill or other sunfish that can handle themselves against a bluegill. Wait until he heals up though.

Chad

for your nitrate problem, water changes are probably the best method to keep the level below 20 ppm, also try to add some floating plants. In my heavily planted 125 gal, i have to add KNO3 to keep my nitrate level at 10 ppm, floating plants grow very fast because they have leaves out of the water, they have better acess to co2, they will use up nitrate as fertlizer.

but remeber nothing can take the place of regular water changes, I would think you should be doing about 25% to 30% per week even with floating plants

So you're saying a fleeing fish can get injured on a rock, but not on "really gnarly" driftwood?

That is what I am saying.

I suspect you can find some sharp wood, a saw and sandpaper can round off any potential hazards. Normally, wood in water is slippery and smooth. Fish can get scraped up on wood, but they always get scraped up on rocks when avoiding getting stuffed.

In this instance, we are working with a 75 gallon and two pretty big fish. Stacking a lot of rocks of anykind are going to eat up tank space. With wood and weeds you create some dense cover that can be used totally by the bluegill to escape the bass.

I was also talking about angular rocks you can stack up to make caves and other cover. Nice rounded rocks pose little problem, but in most tanks ( they make tanks so narrow all the time ) , you cannot stack round rocks up well enough to make suitable cover.

The bass was fine with the bluegill until he got sick, then he really started picking on him, usually the bluegill picks on the bass more than anything. I am a veterinary technician and our doctors do not deal with fish, but they looked up some medication to use for a bacterial infection and I got it from a pet store in town. I have been medicating the bluegill for two days now, and he has already done a complete turnaround, last night he was chasing the bass around everywhere and he ate well, so hopefully the medication has taken hold and he will recover without any problem. I caught both of these fish out of my 10 acre pond last summer, so they are both staying, especially the bass, he was my first fish, but they will both be fine together...hopefully for the rest of their time together. One of the veterinarians I work with has a 22 inch bass and two big bluegill in a 55 gallon tank, he has had them for about 7 years and they have not outgrown the tank and they get along great together, so I don't forsee a major problem with having them together. I personally think his tank is too small, but they seem to love it in there, so my 75 gallon should be ok, I guess I'll just cross that bridge when I get there, if they get too big, I will return them to my pond where they came from. Like I said, the bass didn't pick on the bluegill too bad until he got sick, usually it's the other way around. I am going to add more cover for the bluegill to get into though to escape the bass, so thanks for all the advice, it was a big help. My water is back to being in great shape and the bluegill is coming out of it.

http://forum.nanfa.o...p?showtopic=442

if they get too big, I will return them to my pond where they came from.

He said its his 10 acre pond.

I can safely assume that its on private property and fairly isolated from any naturally occuring fish populations. I know other members of this board will regularly put fish into small private ponds and nobody has yet appeared to have a problem with it.

In this case we know that there is a history of disease of the fish in question. As a result, I should think that neither fish should be returned to the wild under any circumstances.

We're not talking about the wild here, we're talking about a stocked, private pond.

We're not talking about the wild here, we're talking about a stocked, private pond....

....which is not completely unconnected to other local systems.

nobody has yet appeared to have a problem with it.

Oops, looks like some folks have a problem with it

Seriously though, nobody is gonna come down on you - just give it some thought is all.

Ok, so I see that the majority of people out there feel that it is unethical to return a captive fish to its natural habitat, and I guess I should clarify what I meant when I said I would return it to my pond if it out grew the aquarium. After reading what most of you had to say, I see your point about spreading disease and fish not being accepted back into the pond and possibly being attacked and killed, so I won't return the bluegill back to the pond because it now has a history of disease. But if years down the road, the bass is huge and the 75 gallon aquarium will not hold him any longer. I am not going to euth a 9 or 10 pound bass because he has become to big for his surroundings. I will return him to my pond where I caught him as long as he has never been ill because 1) there is nothing in my pond big enough to prey upon a bass that big, 2) only about 5% of the total population of bass in my pond will be that big and mature so it's not like every fish will try to fight him, and yes some of the large ones will because their territories will overlap from time to time just like mature whitetail deer and there will be confrontations, but these confrontations have been going on in this pond starting over 40 years ago when the pond was made and stocked, since that day no outside fish have been put in to the pond and it has not been re-stocked. My family made and stocked the pond and we are the only ones that fish and hunt on the land The bass will have no trouble catching live prey because that is the only thing that it eats anyway. Yes, I understand I took an oath the day I caught the bass to do everything in my power to keep the bass until it dies, that is why I will return him to the pond if and only if he becomes too big for the aquarium. At least I will give him a chance to keep living rather than euthing him because everyone knows he will have an excellent chance at survival and a minute chance of spreading any disease or parasite that is not already present in the pond. This is not public water, it is my own private 10 acre pond on my own land, so right or wrong, I will make a decision and cross that bridge when I get there if and only if it comes to that. Chances are I will have the bass and bluegill until they die of old age because I don't think they will ever outgrow the aquarium. Our local biologist in my area happens to be a good friend of mine and he has a 26 inch bass and a 9 inch perch in a 50 gallon tank, and they have lived in there for years and are just fine, so hopefully I never have to make this decision, but if I do, he will go back to the pond. I know most of you will disagree but that's the way I will handle it. Every fish will die eventually and that will provide food for other animals in the ecosystem, that's a given. As long as it is disease free than I don't see a problem with it. But hopefully it dies in my tank of old age and this post will be all for not. Most of you had and made great points that I considered, so thanks.

I personally do not have a problem with people returning a bass to a privately owned pond. I do think that a 75 gal tank is to small for a full grown Large Mouth Bass, many of the people who frequent this sight are experts and most of us have years of practical experience in keeping and breeding fish, i think few of us would consider keeping a Large Mouth for the duration of its life in a 75 gal, to small a box for to big a fish. In the end though its your fish so do as you see fit.

I think it would be best to remove the LMB ASAP. You state you will return it to your pond once it reaches about 10 lbs, it will outgrow a 75g long before it reaches lunker status. Even the bluegill alone will put a hurtin on the bio-load in that tank, they are very large as Lepomis go. If you don't remove the LMB there will be continued aggresion and bio-load issues. I had a problem similer to this, not with native fish but with oscar cichlids. I tried to keep two oscars in a 75g tank, keep in mind that LMB grow larger than oscars and IME faster. Bluegill grow about the same size. By the time these fish reached 9-11" TL I was having to do large water changes every other day in order to keep the nitrates below 20 ppm, and was having aggresion issues with the fish. They had started developing hole in the head disease due to stress and the increased nitrate level. One of the fish is now dead. Nether of these fish were 10 lbs, the largest oscars caught are about 3 lbs and I know mine didn't even weigh that mich. Your LMB is already as large as my oscars and your bluegill is not far behind.

lease fill out this sheet, sorry if you already awnsered some things. This is my generic form.

How many, what kind and how big are fish do you have?

Are all your fish effected?

What is your gallonage?

What kind of decor and gravle do you have?

What about plants?

What kind of naiborhood/county do you live in?

How old is your fish?

Whats your PH?

Nitrates?

Nitrites?

Ammonia?

Hardness?

What test kit did you use? What brand?

WHats your filter?

WHat brand?

How do you treat your replacement water?

What brand if you use dechlor?

Where do you get your tap, or creek water? (from a resavar? Aquaduct?)

What do you do for airation?

Do you live in Aurora Colorado? (serous question)

What medication, if any are you using?


A good medicine for tail rot is maracyn-two. That should come in a cardboard package that you can get at any decent aquatics store or petco, but not petsmart. for a 75 gallon you will use a little less than a bottle a day, os read the instructions and if you need to use it for two weeks, get 13 bottles. Thats the down side to this medicine.

Thats all saying your OLD medicine doesn't cure your fish. This medicine also comes with a magical diagnosis /treatment chart for fish. It is SO good that some people buy the medicine so that they can have the chart.