Pet stores should require passing a test:)

Re: the below --

* Fishes or other aquatic organisms must not be relocated or introduced into any outdoor bodies of water, even to places where they were originally collected (except catch and immediate release), including specimens raised in private aquaria, without permission from the appropriate governing agency. Members must realize that there are complicated and often unknown ecological processes at work in aquatic systems which may make fish introductions detrimental to the system. Potential problems from such introductions include displacement of native species, spread of disease, and the loss of genetic diversity via hybridization.

Here's my problem with that. If you're collecting all your specimens from the same place, you shouldn't be in any danger of introducing disease, disrupting ecologies, etc. Bob Carrol of the Virginia Institue of Marine Science routinely brings specimens into tanks for student observation and, after everyone has had a good look, returns them to the wild. He specifically mentions that it would be a shame not to return a sook (female blue crab) to the wild considering the millions of eggs she's carrying. I think these rules were instituted with the collector in mind who catches fish in a variety of places and puts them together, thus potentially spreading disease if any should be released (thus the phrase "fish introductions" -- different from "fish reintroductions"). Common sense should have a place in anyone's practice.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." -- Emerson

Apopois' comment about the substrate may be right on the money. I dug a little deeper with my suction hose and found some pretty nasty water, also about 1/2 of my tank's botton rock is covered with larger rock (for fish and crustation hideouts) that I havent suctioned under. I replaced 50 % of my tanks water last night and now have a pH of 7.2, Ammonia 4, Nitrite 0, Nitrates 40 ppm.
If the bacteria turnes ammonia into nitrites and then into nitrates why would we want to see 0 nitrites? Would their presence not be proof that the bacteria is present and working?
Gzeiger i think I missunderstood an earlier comment about adding crushed shells. I thought you suggested them in order to increase my pH, I didn't know that they were a buffer which helps to keep the pH stable. Will some shells I brought back from the beach work? Or is this a store bought item? Also how much should I add to a 55 gallon tank? The other aquarium is not a possible donor of bacteria as I cleaned its filter squeaky clean too. It has been about three weeks since i destroyed the last batch of bacteria so should I add some cycle speeder upper?
About lessor siren catching. On my property two ponds drain together then into a common creek ( more like a drainage ditch that has dried up completely every summer, except this one) that has been the source of my flier sunfish, carp, topminnows, creek chub sucker etc that come as far as my spillway during prolonged spring flooding. I sneak down the ditch looking for them after dark with my head lamp and net. I saw two last night one about three inches and the other six inches. You often see only their tails wiggling away as they make their escape.

I hope everyone knows how helpfull and enlightening this site and your comments are.

Thanks,

Bo

In the natural order of things, when an aquarium cycles, first you get measurable ammonia. The ammonia-eating bacteria start to multiply. As they eat ammonia, they produce nitrites. You will see ammonia levels fall. Then the nitrite-eating bacteria start to multiply. They eat nitrites and produce nitrates. At this point, nitrite levels fall. You remove the nitrates with regular water changes.

If you get your water from a municipal supply, you need to add a dechlorinator every time you do water changes. Use one that neutralizes chlorine and chloramines. If you have your own well, you don't need to worry about dechlorinators.

It's far more important to keep the pH level stable than to get it "perfect." Unless you are breeding fish, you usually don't need to fiddle with raising or lowering the pH. If you concentrate on regular water changes, the pH will take care of itself.

If your tank is overstocked, you will never be able get the water chemistry stable. The fish will be constantly stressed and will get diseases, if they don't outright die.

These statements are true for tropical and native fish alike. The only difference you need to worry about there is temperature. Find out the favored temperature range for the fish you want to keep and try to match it. Fish kept at the wrong temps will be constantly stressed, etc.

[quote name='BoJones' date='24 September 2009 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1253819661' post='66180']
"One of the bowfin will have to leave to prevent them from damaging each other and stressing the other fish"
If you are going to get rid of the bowfin, I would gladly take it, if you could ship to North Carolina.
Thanks
(Moderator's note: North Carolina or North Dakota?)

The pH buffer of interest is carbonate ion, which is certainly available from regular seashells from the beach. I use a bag of crushed oystershell I got from a farm supply store which was about $8 for 50 pounds and will likely last the rest of my natural life. Shell will slowly dissolve over a long period of time, releasing calcium carbonate and helping keep the pH stable. The end product of biological filtration is conversion of (basic) ammonia to nitric acid, so tanks tend to acidify over time if left alone. Water changes help, but a buffer is never a bad thing. Crushed shell is a little better, since the rate of dissolution is a function of surface area, but you can break it up yourself. The reason I bought material for this purpose rather than collecting it was actually to get a large supply as a calcium source rather than strictly a buffer, since I wanted to raise crayfish.

I guess I'll have to get a headlamp.

"The pH buffer of interest is carbonate ion"

I your looking for a good buffer in Kentucky, we've got limestone everywhere. It's made of calcium carbonate. You may already have some in there if you collected local rock.

At the pH of most freshwater tanks the ion of interest is bicarbonate, to be precise, but it's part of the whole continuum of carbon dioxide solution in water which is pH-dependent. We can discuss pKa's later...

The pH buffer of interest is carbonate ion, which is certainly available from regular seashells from the beach. I use a bag of crushed oystershell I got from a farm supply store which was about $8 for 50 pounds and will likely last the rest of my natural life. Shell will slowly dissolve over a long period of time, releasing calcium carbonate and helping keep the pH stable. The end product of biological filtration is conversion of (basic) ammonia to nitric acid, so tanks tend to acidify over time if left alone. Water changes help, but a buffer is never a bad thing. Crushed shell is a little better, since the rate of dissolution is a function of surface area, but you can break it up yourself. The reason I bought material for this purpose rather than collecting it was actually to get a large supply as a calcium source rather than strictly a buffer, since I wanted to raise crayfish.

I guess I'll have to get a headlamp.

I would be glad to send you a lesser siren if you would like. They have been relatively easy to find here. The place I hunt them has a lot of leaf litter and soil, not a rock filled creek. When they get spooked they can escape into the leaves and mud where I have yet to be able to find them. I had a pair for over a year that died during the freezing rain storm we had here last winter. 18 days without power was too much to handle. I seldom saw them interact with each other. I cut the top off of a large plastic drink container and filled it with mud from their creek, it was a little hard on the eyes but they called it home. They can spin faster than a crock tearing into buffalo when they need to, like when they eat crawdad tail or sometimes when breaking off a piece of worm.
Back on topic I will add crushed shell tomorrow. My ammonia today was 0.5 and pH was 6.9. The readings the day before were Ammonia 4.0 and pH 7.2. I am not sure why their was such a drastic change over 24hrs without changing anything. The previous days readings were taken within 30min of after the 50% water change, maybe too soon?

[quote name='grimes' date='27 September 2009 - 08:10 PM' timestamp='1254078606' post='66360']
[quote name='BoJones' date='24 September 2009 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1253819661' post='66180']
"One of the bowfin will have to leave to prevent them from damaging each other and stressing the other fish"
If you are going to get rid of the bowfin, I would gladly take it, if you could ship to North Carolina.
Thanks
(Moderator's note: North Carolina or North Dakota?)
[/quote]

They seem better lately. I didnt notice any agression today. If it does continue, sending you one would be a lot better than killing it so I appreciate the offer.

Thanks

Bo

"The pH buffer of interest is carbonate ion"

I your looking for a good buffer in Kentucky, we've got limestone everywhere. It's made of calcium carbonate. You may already have some in there if you collected local rock.

Thanks I did not know limestone was also a buffer. None around my hunting grounds but lots of sandstone. I have seen it along roads south of here though.

Bo

I'm not sure if it is actually a realistic concern or not, but it seems like you'd have the potential for contamination from vehicle fluids and the like if the rock was found along a roadside drainage ditch etc. It might be worth walking a few yards off the beaten path just in case. My concerns may also be completely unfounded.

I am glad I made the original post after all. I usually scour the internet for information on even the simplest of projects but for whatever reason I didn't think it necessary when starting my aquarium, just add water. Right? What ignorance. Now I examine my fish daily for signs of disease, test their water daily (often more), worry that they are getting the right amount and variety of foods and closely monitor their behavior for changes. It's not about keeping them alive while you observe their behavior as this would seldom be more than seeing how they behave in survival mode. That would be more like observing people crammed into a prison cell and thinking "so this is human behavior".
I thought I should send a picture of my 55 gallon aquarium that is kept in my wood working shop. I would like to try live plants again, after I do the research this time. I have only collected on my own land and was amazed at the amount of different species that it provides during spring flooding.
I only wish that I will live long enough to reap the benefits of my mistakes.

Thank again,

Bo

2nd try

Looks a lot better. What are you keeping in it now?

Looks a lot better. What are you keeping in it now?

Two bowfin, three small bull heads, 2 small redear sunfish, 3 small bass, 1 common snapper, 1 longear sunfish and a carp. Oh and a creek chubsucker and a siren. Dangit that sounds like a lot when I type it out. The ammonia is down to 0.25 and has been continually dropping without further water changes so I assume the beneficial bacteria are helping. I guess the problem is going to be as the fish continue growing the amount of ammonia will likewise.

Thanks for the comment about the aquarium. Plastic plants relieve a lot of maintenance issues but still look plastic. I would like to see a poll of NANFA members that use plastic compared to live plants.

Bo

The diving waterbeetles and crawdads are still in there too.

Yes, get rid of 2/3 of the fish and both turtles. You have a big overload there.

This advice offered earlier is still golden - once your fish/turtles get some size you will have problems...

Dangit that sounds like a lot when I type it out

It is, that's why it sounds that way.

Actually, I would remove the snapper (which will either outright eat your fish, or instead just tear chunks out of them eventually), all 3 bullheads (too big for 55 gallon IMO), the carp (not hard to figure out), the siren, 2 of the bass, and both bowfin. Regardless of how cool the tank looks now, which it does BTW - there's no way it will work in a 55 gallon tank. I probably wouldn't try it in a 125 gallon honestly. BTW- Bowfin will eventually destroy most of the tank decor and probably bust through the top lid in the near future. Try to find an auto seatbelt to strap the lid down...once they hit 20" (which is too big for your tank) escapes will be a minor annoynance - finding them on the carpet with your cat batting at them....at 30" an escape means about a gallon of water on your carpet, and a very memorable experience....at that size your tank will look like you've stuffed a stuffed a gerbil in a mason jar.

I guess the problem is going to be as the fish continue growing the amount of ammonia will likewise.

Not exactly. The fish will definitely produce more ammonia, but by then your nitrifying bacteria should be able to adapt to the load and what will really happen is your nitrates will be extremely high and not controllable with frequent water changes. Will it affect your livestock? Maybe not. Most of the species you have listed are hardy and will probably tolerate it just fine.

Interesting mix, but doomed IMO.

Edited by Gene2308, 07 October 2009 - 08:18 AM.

Thanks GENE2308, it took a while but I see the errors in my ways. I am considering a complete overhaul. One that has small fish from my area. So far the fish that interest me (that I have caught), and will remain small enough are 2 types of darters, topminnows, pirate perch and flier sunfish.

Anyone been dipping in Western KY with other suggestions?

Thanks,

Bo