what are these? can anyone confirm all 4?

http://www.kdfwr.sta.../darter-800.jpg
what type is this?

http://dnr.state.il....h/images/36.gif
what is this?

http://www.nanfa.org/akiweb/1016.JPG
what is this?


http://us.i1.yimg.co...m/fi0395_1m.jpg
what is this?

http://www.kdfwr.sta.../darter-800.jpg
what type is this?

http://dnr.state.il....h/images/36.gif
what is this?

http://www.nanfa.org/akiweb/1016.JPG
what is this?
http://us.i1.yimg.co...m/fi0395_1m.jpg
what is this?

If there's a quiz later I'm stumped on two without further poking around the hosting websites. But the first picture is a rainbow darter I'd guess, and the third shot from the nanfa website (which should have an index of these photos) is a blackspotted topminnow, Fundulus olivaceus. I know I've seen that topminnow photo before, so if it's really a blackline topminnow F. notatus I'll be embarassed....

If there's a quiz later I'm stumped on two without further poking around the hosting websites. But the first picture is a rainbow darter I'd guess, and the third shot from the nanfa website (which should have an index of these photos) is a blackspotted topminnow, Fundulus olivaceus. I know I've seen that topminnow photo before, so if it's really a blackline topminnow F. notatus I'll be embarassed....

I just went to the NANFA site and checked the topminnow photo. It IS a blackline topminnow, F. notatus; I would've sworn that I saw enough spots on the fish for it to be olivaceus. I stand corrected.

Stumped on the 4th picture?!?!?!? It's a snail darter (male)!!!!!!! I'm at an unfair advantage for ID'ing that..... I'm pretty sure that photo was taken by J.R. Shute. The first picture is likely a newly described species from the E. spectabile complex. If it is MS/OH River drainage it is still considered spectabile, but Pat Ceas described 4 species from the Kentucky Tennessee region. Second fish looks like a walleye to me but the angle is kinda bad to see any other characteristics that might make distinguishing it between a sauger hard.

Stumped on the 4th picture?!?!?!? It's a snail darter (male)!!!!!!! I'm at an unfair advantage for ID'ing that..... I'm pretty sure that photo was taken by J.R. Shute. The first picture is likely a newly described species from the E. spectabile complex. If it is MS/OH River drainage it is still considered spectabile, but Pat Ceas described 4 species from the Kentucky Tennessee region. Second fish looks like a walleye to me but the angle is kinda bad to see any other characteristics that might make distinguishing it between a sauger hard.

Sure, I've never seen a snail darter in the flesh, you may be the only one on this board who has. I'm proud of myself for having seen live boulder darters(!!). And you're probably right about the first being in the spectabile complex. I have those four photos of Pat's new species taped up on my office refrigerator (no, really), even with that it still didn't register on me. Gack!

Sure, I've never seen a snail darter in the flesh, you may be the only one on this board who has. I'm proud of myself for having seen live boulder darters(!!). And you're probably right about the first being in the spectabile complex. I have those four photos of Pat's new species taped up on my office refrigerator (no, really), even with that it still didn't register on me. Gack!

Well keep poking around in the Paint Rock, just a little lower, and eventually you might see one. One seems to show up every 10 years. I know of 3 or 4 other NANFA'ns that have but aren't on the board, at least that I know of.

At least you have the pictures to help with the confusion. I'm right on top of the drainage boundary for two of the species. Depending on which way I step outside Cookeville I have to remeber who is who. I've still yet to see a TRUE spectabile. I had to sort alot of them from caeruleum over the last year too for host ID after people come back with 200+ fish all in the same coolers, so that all blue anal fin caught my eye immediately.

anyone else?

ill give you all a little hint.... #2 is one of the rarest fish to find in oklahoma.
and yes i do know the answer to all 4

Number 2 is a Capsian Pike-Perch

I'm not quite sure the state of Kentucky "knows" (i.e. properly has the first picture ID'ed or brought up to date) what picture #1 is and unless they say what drainage it is from, what they say it is, is likely not true.

Number 2 is a Capsian Pike-Perch

NO wrong

I'm not quite sure the state of Kentucky "knows" (i.e. properly has the first picture ID'ed or brought up to date) what picture #1 is and unless they say what drainage it is from, what they say it is, is likely not true.

because you dont know
try me

fisgokie,

what is the purpose of this post?

anyone else?

ill give you all a little hint.... #2 is one of the rarest fish to find in oklahoma.
and yes i do know the answer to all 4

Number two is a walleye.
Seeing as how you looked up the pictures in the first plae I would hope you would know what they all are.

Care to tell me what #1 is since apparently I don't know.

And what drainage or HUC in Kentucky the fish pictured came from...

fisgokie,

what is the purpose of this post?

just a lil fun and to test the minds of all darter lovers is all.
nothing bad about it drewish

Number two is a walleye.
Seeing as how you looked up the pictures in the first plae I would hope you would know what they all are.

no

hint #2 #2 is not a large fish ( anything bigger than 5 inches)

Somone, or your source of the picture, flat out lied about #2. It is in no way a stargazing darter. The white on the fins, too many dorsal bands, the entire jaw, the caudal peduncle, everything about it is not an Imostoma subgenus Percina.

Like I mentioned earlier, there is no way to verify that as an Orangethroat darter from Kentucky unless you know the drainage it came from. True Etheostoma spectabile are only in a handful of drainages that are direct tribs to the Ohio and Mississippi rivers. It could be E. kantuckeense, E. lawrenci, E. bison, or the species known as the Caney Fork Darter. I may not always accept complexes broken up into species immediately, I'm just passing along what is generally accepted right now.

hint #2 #2 is not a large fish ( anything bigger than 5 inches)

Yes, it is a walleye. 1) No other NA fish looks like that except the sauger and the saugar lacks the white tip on the bottom lobe of the caudal fin. 2) It says so right on the site.
http://dnr.state.il..../fish/PERCH.HTM

I'm not closing this quite yet...

fisgokie, please be accurate in any future "quiz" that you may have. and please drop the condescending remarks.

I think the internet and its use/misuse is partly to blame here. Don't get me wrong, I love google, but it is bastardizing information. While I sort of got the same feeling Drew, it is hard to understand ones intent and their inflection with text, with a host of emoticons or not. Second, is the point I was trying to make about the validity of a website. I'm sure while it may say "Orangethroat darter" on that Kentucky website unless they provided collection records it can only be taken with a grain of salt. Since 1997 that species has now become 5 species and for the most part it is just now coming into common use, especially on that level. It can be pretty hard to keep up with taxonomists. I know in TN there are no state designations really recognizing those fish yet or an even better example, up until last year E. tippecanoe was state endangered still. So does that mean I could have collected E. dennoncourti (used to be tippecanoe until a Copeia 1994 paper), TWRA didn't catch up to speed and update their list. The internet isn't gospel. NatureServe, isn't even gospel. I pointed out to them last year that snail darters were/are current in the Sequatchie drainage, got a 'thanks we will update accordingly' and it still says "Historical". To fisgoskie's defense, it did say stargazing darter next to the picture, but again, careful examination of the page and especially the picture (!) would have revealed it in fact wasn't a stargazing darter at all. Yet again too, one line up, there is a taxonomic misnomer.

NatureServe, isn't even gospel. I pointed out to them last year that snail darters were/are current in the Sequatchie drainage, got a 'thanks we will update accordingly' and it still says "Historical". To fisgoskie's defense, it did say stargazing darter next to the picture, but again, careful examination of the page and especially the picture (!) would have revealed it in fact wasn't a stargazing darter at all. Yet again too, one line up, there is a taxonomic misnomer.

Natureserve lists Atlantic salmon and redside dace as "Historical" for my watershed, though I know both species are still here.

Natureserve lists Atlantic salmon and redside dace as "Historical" for my watershed, though I know both species are still here.

I think that just means that reports to the database are old, with no recent confirmed sightings. It does not mean the fish is no longer present. Fish listed as "historical" I would think are more likely no longer present than fish listed as "current", but either could be now present or now absent.

I think the internet and its use/misuse is partly to blame here. Don't get me wrong, I love google, but it is bastardizing information.

Amen to that....