My Longears spawned on Easter Sunday at 6pm. I was able to witness the action and actually record it in video. I was not prepared for this occurance and did not remove any eggs. I will leave it to nature to decide whether any fry will survive. I hope to be more ready next time. My questions are thus: when the female lays her eggs and the male is circling with her, should I be able to actually see his milt discharge to fert the eggs? I did not see anything come from him. Also, if fert did occur, and if any eggs survived predation, what is the hatch and swim up timeframe? To avoid predation, could I net the eggs and put them into a hang on breeding container? Should I do this for any larvae or fry that may appear? Should it be obvious at this stage (45 hours later) whether any fry are present? Should I be able to see eyes or something in my substrate? As is obvious, this is my first experience with spawning sunfish.
Longear Spawn Questions
Started by
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, Apr 06 2010 09:29 AM
26 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 06 April 2010 - 03:14 PM
You will not be able to see milt of nesting male.
Hatch about 36 hours.
Swim up / exodus 6 to 10 days later, depending on temperature and genetic background of parents.
If wanting to collect some young, then siphon them out, avoid using a net. They should be easy to see.
Hatch about 36 hours.
Swim up / exodus 6 to 10 days later, depending on temperature and genetic background of parents.
If wanting to collect some young, then siphon them out, avoid using a net. They should be easy to see.
#3
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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:58 AM
Thanks for the information, centrarchid.
I fear there are no offspring as I do not see any larvae anywhere. While the female was laying her eggs, the male was feeding on them as he saw them. There were some instances when he left the nest in pursuit of other fish that ventured too near that some of the eggs escaped his notice and floated to the side (none adhered to any rocks in the nest.) As he quickly returned to his duty, he'd continue circling with the female, watching for intruders and gobbling all eggs he found. I wanted to collect the eggs, but didn't want to risk disruption of the process. By the time it all ended, the male was fiercly protecting the nest and feeding on the rest of the eggs he could find. I had hoped that some of the stray eggs would hatch and the fry swim for cover to develop, but I'm quickly giving up hope since I see none present. If any did survive, I'm guessing that any of the other longears in the tank would make a meal of them.
Is there a good rule of thumb to follow for collecting the eggs without intruding and totally shutting down the activity? I can't remove any of the adults, so removing the eggs to develop is my only option at this time. I have a hang-on-the-side breeder container. Can eggs be placed into this contraption with any hope of hatching?
Here are a few photos of the nest and activity. (Forgive the quality. They are screencaps from the video I made with my phone.)
I fear there are no offspring as I do not see any larvae anywhere. While the female was laying her eggs, the male was feeding on them as he saw them. There were some instances when he left the nest in pursuit of other fish that ventured too near that some of the eggs escaped his notice and floated to the side (none adhered to any rocks in the nest.) As he quickly returned to his duty, he'd continue circling with the female, watching for intruders and gobbling all eggs he found. I wanted to collect the eggs, but didn't want to risk disruption of the process. By the time it all ended, the male was fiercly protecting the nest and feeding on the rest of the eggs he could find. I had hoped that some of the stray eggs would hatch and the fry swim for cover to develop, but I'm quickly giving up hope since I see none present. If any did survive, I'm guessing that any of the other longears in the tank would make a meal of them.
Is there a good rule of thumb to follow for collecting the eggs without intruding and totally shutting down the activity? I can't remove any of the adults, so removing the eggs to develop is my only option at this time. I have a hang-on-the-side breeder container. Can eggs be placed into this contraption with any hope of hatching?
Here are a few photos of the nest and activity. (Forgive the quality. They are screencaps from the video I made with my phone.)
#4
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 07 April 2010 - 11:23 AM
Your gravel is coarse and egg-colored, so its very possible there are eggs you cant see. Poke a siphon down into the nest and siphon out into a bucket; you may find eggs.
#5
Guest_centrarchid_*
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Posted 07 April 2010 - 01:18 PM
Do as Gerald says. especially if male is still defending site. Male eating eggs is pretty unusual unless he his in poor condition.
#6
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Posted 07 April 2010 - 04:56 PM
Do as Gerald says. especially if male is still defending site. Male eating eggs is pretty unusual unless he his in poor condition.
Also by this time, eggs will have hatched and you will have pro-larvae. They may be strong enough to avoid a weak siphon so try using a 3/8" inside diameter.
#7
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 01:37 PM
Yes when my longears spawned I was amazed how well newborns that could not yet swim upright could still swim downward with enough force to resist a siphon. Next time I'm gonna place a stethoscope and high-frequency sound recorder (like used for bats) against the tank and see if I can hear them screaming "swim down! swim down!" Their father has watched Nemo several times.
with fight the fi
with fight the fi
Also by this time, eggs will have hatched and you will have pro-larvae. They may be strong enough to avoid a weak siphon so try using a 3/8" inside diameter.
#8
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 03:53 PM
You can also steal a turkey bastor from the kitchen and suck the prolarvae up with that. Works best large gravel that does not go up into tube.
#9
Guest_mdwalt1_*
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 08:47 PM
I siphoned the nest and surrounding area and in the process filled a 5 gal bucket. I looked briefly at the contents and couldn't see anything moving. I took the opportunity to do a small water change and added fresh water filling the tank back up. I then did a very thorough search and still saw nothing until I tapped the bucket. I saw 2 minute pale beige bodies each with 2 black specks for eyes. Aha! Now I have 2 in a bucket and am hopeful more are still in the tank. My question is what to do with them now? Try to put them back or raise them in the bucket until they're ready to transfer? Should I aerate the bucket? When do I start feeding them and with what? So many questions...
#10
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Posted 09 April 2010 - 09:49 AM
Turns out there were 7 pro-larvae total in the bucket. I grabbed a turkey baster and removed them from the bucket and placed them into a 5" diameter, round plastic container that my wife's betta came in. Wow, those guys are much smaller than I thought they'd be! I wonder how many eggs were laid and how many hatched. Now that I know what to look for, I closely scanned the tank but still didn't see any sign of them. I can't help but feel there are more in the tank somewhere. I plan to attenpt to grow these 7 in the container and let the others use their survival skills in the tank and see what happens. In addition to the other questions from my previous post, is there anything I need to do to regulate the temp of the small container or add any aeration? When do they begin to need food? Here's a photo of one of the little guys. Thanks for the help you've all given and any more that you can provide.
#11
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 09 April 2010 - 09:59 AM
The betta container is nice for easy observation, but it's way too small to maintain good water quality. I'd put them in something bigger, at least a gallon, with light aeration. Plants (and light) would help remove ammonia & nitrite. They will be ready to eat fresh-hatched Artemia when they are swimming upright in a few days. If you think these are small fry, try one of Enneacanthus sunfish next time!
#12
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 12:01 PM
Moved the 7 pro-larvae into a large fish bowl with an aerator. They've now become free swimming fry!
I'm hoping to see many more in the main tank that were not removed initially. Here's a pic.
I'm hoping to see many more in the main tank that were not removed initially. Here's a pic.
#13
Guest_centrarchid_*
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 03:23 PM
mdwalt1,
Your guys are looking good. The developmental stage you have for 8 days I call larva. It can feed itself but still has not gone through metamorphosis.
Your guys are looking good. The developmental stage you have for 8 days I call larva. It can feed itself but still has not gone through metamorphosis.
#14
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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:26 PM
Thanks for the info. At what duration after this 8 day period will they go through this metamorphosis? Will it be overnight or take weeks?
Also, I'm concerned they're not eating. I'm trying finely crushed flake, a "first bites" tropical gritty texture food and recently I gave them 2 frozen brine shrimp. They still look as if they've never eaten. Any suggestions?
Also, I'm concerned they're not eating. I'm trying finely crushed flake, a "first bites" tropical gritty texture food and recently I gave them 2 frozen brine shrimp. They still look as if they've never eaten. Any suggestions?
#15
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Posted 23 April 2010 - 12:28 PM
Mdwalt1,
You observations of appearently no food intake is not good. Your fish are likely suffering from I call the dwindles which can be caused by low quality food, poor feeding regmine or water quality. You are likely going to loose whole brood. Could you briefly explain your feeding technique and water quality managment method. I would also recommend trying to start a new brood. Survivors of poor culture conditions during first few days after swim up will be slow growers thereafter and may have other problems.
You observations of appearently no food intake is not good. Your fish are likely suffering from I call the dwindles which can be caused by low quality food, poor feeding regmine or water quality. You are likely going to loose whole brood. Could you briefly explain your feeding technique and water quality managment method. I would also recommend trying to start a new brood. Survivors of poor culture conditions during first few days after swim up will be slow growers thereafter and may have other problems.
#16
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Posted 26 April 2010 - 09:42 AM
I fear the larvae are lost. I placed them back into the main tank in hopes they can access the micro food they need. I'm not optimistic.
On the bright side, the same two fish spawned again yesterday afternoon! I plan to "let it be" since I am in the dark about feeding larvae. There's plenty of cover for them and hopefully the nourishment they need.
I'm willing to try again if anyone has advice on providing food for larvae. Otherwise I will not intervene.
On the bright side, the same two fish spawned again yesterday afternoon! I plan to "let it be" since I am in the dark about feeding larvae. There's plenty of cover for them and hopefully the nourishment they need.
I'm willing to try again if anyone has advice on providing food for larvae. Otherwise I will not intervene.
#17
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Posted 26 April 2010 - 07:02 PM
We use brine nauplii with most of our sunfishes and basssmaster is working on a low tech production system that requires minimal effort but gives good growth with longear.
If you can purchase brine shrimp cysts for about $35 / can, then try the following. Setup up two brine shrimp hatchers (I can provide details for a low cost system if needed). Arm and harvest one in AM before you go to work and do the same for other approximately 12 hours later which will give you two fresh hatches per day. Feed once in morning and twice in afternoon. Two weeks and fish should be ready to train to pellets. Are you game?
If you can purchase brine shrimp cysts for about $35 / can, then try the following. Setup up two brine shrimp hatchers (I can provide details for a low cost system if needed). Arm and harvest one in AM before you go to work and do the same for other approximately 12 hours later which will give you two fresh hatches per day. Feed once in morning and twice in afternoon. Two weeks and fish should be ready to train to pellets. Are you game?
#18
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Posted 27 April 2010 - 04:25 PM
I may have to go that route if I expect to raise any offspring. Please provide the details on a hatchery system that you recommend. I've seen various types on the Internet and am unsure of the best, low cost setup.
Alternatively, what do you think the percentage for survival will be for any hatchlings left on their own in a 30 gal planted, with structures containing 5 fish from 3" to 5" in size?
Alternatively, what do you think the percentage for survival will be for any hatchlings left on their own in a 30 gal planted, with structures containing 5 fish from 3" to 5" in size?
#19
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Posted 28 April 2010 - 07:07 AM
I will have more time to work on hatchery tomorrow. How much money and table top can you invest?
In regards to survival approximately zero. Your young longear do not have the innate behavioral package needed to use vegetation as cover from larger sunfishes. The only fish you can trust with them is their father which you can do much longer than what occurs in nature. Young (larval) longear from most populations I have bred seem to avoid vegetation but are not pelagic. They seem to associate with bottom in relatively open water and will push up into shallows (~ 6")to hange with similar sized minnow fry. Not all longear populations same on this. We do occasionally get longear larvae to survive and grow in our biofilter. Bluegill, redear, green, and pumpkinseed sunfishes can not do so in same system.
In regards to survival approximately zero. Your young longear do not have the innate behavioral package needed to use vegetation as cover from larger sunfishes. The only fish you can trust with them is their father which you can do much longer than what occurs in nature. Young (larval) longear from most populations I have bred seem to avoid vegetation but are not pelagic. They seem to associate with bottom in relatively open water and will push up into shallows (~ 6")to hange with similar sized minnow fry. Not all longear populations same on this. We do occasionally get longear larvae to survive and grow in our biofilter. Bluegill, redear, green, and pumpkinseed sunfishes can not do so in same system.
#20
Guest_mdwalt1_*
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Posted 28 April 2010 - 09:55 AM
Centrarchid - thanks for the excellent behavorial info. This is very informative. As for the hatchery, mine will be a very small operation. Table space is not of concern, but I don't want to invest more than $50 for materials. I've already spent $15 on artemia eggs and a sieve. My next step is to extraxt the latest hatchlings from main tank and set up grow out tank. Then I'll know the volume I'm working with. I'm thinking two artemia hatchery containers max.
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