Pumpkinseed and aggression!!

Are they an agressive fish. Would they work with bantams and orange spots. I know the pumpkins get larger but I was just wondering. Any input would be greatly appreciated. I used to live in Ontario and I would never catch one over six inches it seemed.

they can be rather aggressive I wouldn't do it. Pumpkinseeds are similar to longears in aggression, maybe not quite as bad but they deffinately would mess with o-spots and bantams.

they can be rather aggressive I wouldn't do it. Pumpkinseeds are similar to longears in aggression, maybe not quite as bad but they deffinately would mess with o-spots and bantams.

I haven't seen much aggression in my pumpkinseeds so far. I've had them since August. I'm particularly fond of them. Truly beautiful fish. They're well fed but they don't seem to be growing very large. Maybe 4 inches. I would not be afraid to put o-spots and bantams in with them.

In my experiance pumpkinseeds are the most aggresive sunfish I have kept along with my longear. Mine harasses the bullhead twice his size, the LMB and sometimes the green sunfish (the green, while no aggresive, typically won't put up with the pumpkinseed). I had another pumpkinseed at one point and they were constantly going at it. I would not keep them with any smaller species or species that would be hard pressed to defend themselves.

I concur with the above posters, they are nasty little buggers.

Ed your pumkinseeds must have picked up your mild manners. I was thinking that they would be aggressive. I do not have any and they are not within my range. But when I visit Ontario at my wife's folks place I have a spot I used to go to that I can catch them with out any effort at all. Beautiful little fish. And I agree with Ed up there. I have never seen a very large pumpkinseed when fishing. five to six inches max.

they can get bigger but I would say the 15 or 16 that ed got from a book does sound too big. I have seen them up to 9 maybe 10 but thats it. They are quite common in northern Ohio, I would say the average is more like 5-7 though.

They are our most common sunfish around here, I catch them often. THe largest I have caught were about 7" I would say.

A big differerence between pumpkinseeds and longears, on one hand, and especially bluegills on the other, is that bluegills are a schooling species while pumpkinseeds and longears are solitary, certainly as adults. This explains a lot of the behavioral differences, since schooling fish have to tolerate each others' presence. As to size... we used to catch pumpkinseeds in SE Massachusetts that were 22 cm (10 inches) long in spring-fed kettle ponds. Those large males were the most colorful fish I saw in Mass.

A big differerence between pumpkinseeds and longears, on one hand, and especially bluegills on the other, is that bluegills are a schooling species while pumpkinseeds and longears are solitary, certainly as adults. This explains a lot of the behavioral differences, since schooling fish have to tolerate each others' presence. As to size... we used to catch pumpkinseeds in SE Massachusetts that were 22 cm (10 inches) long in spring-fed kettle ponds. Those large males were the most colorful fish I saw in Mass.

When I was a kid in Scouts my scout master caught the largest pumpkinseed I've ever seen. A full round 12 incher, it was gorgeous. It was in the center of a small farm pond the other Pumpkinseeds were all runts. Used to have a great spot for 8-10 inchers too but developement destroyed that years ago. They are definately one of the more aggressive sunnies I've kept. I'd love to raise up a few big ones in their own large tank one day.

they can get bigger but I would say the 15 or 16 that ed got from a book does sound too big. I have seen them up to 9 maybe 10 but thats it. They are quite common in northern Ohio, I would say the average is more like 5-7 though.

I agree with this average totaly. Even seven inches I do not think I have seen. More like five to six inches. And I think it depends on where you catch them. If you do a lot of reading on Green Sunfish it will tell you that if they are in a small stream with limited cover they will be much smaller than in a larger river. So maybe the same applies to the pumpkins. The place I was catching my pumpkins was a small weedy stream in Ontario Canada. If I pulled in a seven incher it would be a monster compared to the average ones I catch there. But I must add this. When you pull a young greenie out of the water fresh from under some dark cover I must say that I love the shape and coloration of this fish. And they make great pets. I once had one that I would feed my left over crickets after a fishing trip. I would wave the cricket in front of the tank and that little greenie would go nuts. Then I would hold it above the tank around six inches up or more and he would jump out of the water to get it out of my fingers. And he would do this very well. One time he caught the cricket but overshot the tank. Boy was that funny seeing him flipping on the living room floor with a cricket in his mouth. Awesome fish I love them.

Pumpkinseeds sure can be nasty. I have a pair in with a pair of redears that are twice their size. Now the male leaves the female alone because the male redear doesn't like his shenanigans. The redears are pretty docile in their aggression, "kissing" each other is the most common form of interaction.

Pumpkinseeds are a lot like green sunfish in relation to what you can read about greens. They are generally small in overpopulated areas and small bodies of water. I would not call it stunted, since they usually look quite healthy and robust.

Out in the marsh, the ones found in vast flowages can get to monster sizes. Had one over a foot long trying to take in a Hannon snakebait. This was the old kind, but still a ten inch snake bait. Quickly tossed out a beetle spin, but it would have nothing of it.

In a large clear pond near here, pumpkinseeds form large shoals for much of the year. The only time they don't do that in there is at spawning times.

But, to answer your question. Using larger species of sunfish would work, something that intimidates them but doesn't tear the pumpkinseeds in half. The problem with that is, you won't know until you try it. Big warmouth might work, since generally warmouth are well behaved. You could try non-sunfish, since pumpkinseeds are mostly aggressive towards sunfish that look like them, and to them that is any that are rounded in shape with spiny fins and "ear flaps".

Bullheads have worked well for me, I have not kept pumpkinseeds very often. They are so common here that its just kind of boring like bluegills are to many people. Some large cyprinids might work. Big golden shiners are really nice. Big pearl dace are cool too, and work well with other sunfish in my experience. Both species readily take prepared foods, and like to graze on algaes and duckweed that become a problem in tanks.

Here is a picture of the tank with the pumpkinseeds, redears, and a rockbass.

Rockbass pretty much is ignored by everyone. The redears control the middle of the tank, but the pumpkinseeds move in from either end, each having an end to themselves. They move in to feed or just check things out, and if they get too close to the center between the redears, then the redears push them back to their spots at the ends. At feeding time there is little problem, everyone explodes on the food trying to just get as much for themselves before someone else does.

I feed them superworms, small minnows, hikari floating carnivore pellets, hunks of freeze dried brine shrimp, and other things on occassion.

I am not positive my redears are a pair, but the more likely to be male has made a nest last year. The pumpkinseeds are a pair. Not sure, and it doesn't matter what the rockbass is. He came in as a tiny guy with some bait minnows. Took to pellets right away oddly enough, and grew on me.

This is a standard 55 gallon tank. These fish spend the spring, summer and fall in my gar river pond, with the gar and bowfin.

Here is a better picture of the male pumpkinseed and the male redear sunfish. Right after this shot, the redear that may be a female came over with her mouth wide open and charged the male pumpkinseed, which he responded to by darting back over to his area. He then slowly comes back to see if any food is in the tank again.

I wouldn't say they only get to 6-7 inches... I have caught a pumpkinseed that rivaled the biggest bluegills in any lake. Albeit I've only caught one that alrge once. Off a family member of mines lake they can get up to 8-9 inches rather easilly.

I wouldn't say they only get to 6-7 inches... I have caught a pumpkinseed that rivaled the biggest bluegills in any lake. Albeit I've only caught one that alrge once. Off a family member of mines lake they can get up to 8-9 inches rather easilly.

Most people seem to report 5-7 inches as the normal maximum size for a pumpkinseed. Most will tell you they've never seen one larger than 7 inches. The few that have will tell you it's extremely rare. It is true that some lakes are known for having unusually large specimens. I collected three last August from a stream in Butler County, Pennsylvania, and they all seem to have maxed out at about 4.5 inches. Either that, or their growth has slowed tremendously. But I think they have maxed out. I'm not complaining, since I don't really want them to get any bigger. I think some breeding populations are typically smaller and other breeding populations are typically larger. I may have sampled a smaller population, but I think your 8-9 inch pumpkinseeds are very unusual.

I also have not seen the aggression many people have reported in pumpkinseeds. I wonder if that is a trait of this particular population also.

By way of comparison, when I put my green sunfish in there in November, he was less than half the size of the pumpkinseeds, and now he is about an inch longer, and probably still growing.

There is an amusement park here in southwestern Pennsylvania called Idlewild Park. There is a pond on the property, U-shaped, in the water-slide section of the park. There are a number of pumpkinseeds and carp in this pond, as well as turtles. A foot bridge crosses it. People are constantly feeding the fish from the footbridge; they must be among the most well-fed fish around. They certainly are not underfed and stunted. Yet the pumpkinseeds are all 5-6 inches max. (The carp are monstrous.) It is quite amuzing how the fish follow you as you walk across the bridge. If you look over and don't see fish, you can bet someone else is feeding them from elsewhere on the bridge. And as far as aggression is concerned, they race each other for food people throw from the bridge, but I haven't seen them attack each other. They nearly always beat the carp in the race for the food (thankfully). The only time the carp get any is when somebody throws it right at them.

So anyway, from what I've seen, a well-fed southwestern Pennsylvania pumpkinseed typically maxes out at 5-6 inches. They may get somewhat bigger in other breeding populations, but I think your 9-inch pumpkinseed is an oddity.

The P-seeds get bigger further north, here's a 8-9" one from Ontario Canada, this one actually hit a hot'n'tot (a diving crankbait 3.5" long for those non hook and line fishers) while trolling for pike and it had the entire treble hook in it's mouth! Thats one big hungry P-seed. I have rarely seem them even close to that size here in Ohio though they just seem to be much bigger up north and we frequently catch rather large ones and they taste nice battered and fried! As a side note this one looked like it encountered a pike and survived earlier in life take a look at how it seems to have two separate dorsal fins, the middle of the fin is missing and it's back was a bit depressed there also.
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I don't know. In most of the ponds/lakes/rivers around here NO bluegill or sunnie makes it past 4 inches. But on a county lake you have to pay to get on we've caught two really large panfish...I caught that massive pumpkinseed, and my father caught a bluegill one of the largest I've ever seen and it was probably almost an inch longer. Is it possibly my fish was a pumpkinseed hybrid and got the size traits?... Ha I saw that picture and the one I caught was much larger then the one that guys was holding up. Mine was around 10-11 inches. It's tyhe only one of that size I have ever caught and it may be on photograph somewhere I can look tomarow maybe.

big water = big fish
big tanks =big fish

I've caught bluegill in 60 foot deep water. You know they were big to hang out with 3 & 4 pound walleye.

I agree, size is always relative to the food and resources available to the fish.

I agree, size is always relative to the food and resources available to the fish.

How does that square with the trend you noted of bigger further north?