This topic is lockedit's about having thoughtful posts
Heh heh, that rules ME out!
I don't have any strong opinions here - let's just see how this plays out. I trust the forum staff in these matters.
Reputation system
Started by
Guest_Drew_*
, Jul 04 2010 09:28 PM
64 replies to this topic
#21
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 07 July 2010 - 11:44 PM
[
Heh heh, that rules ME out!
I don't have any strong opinions here - let's just see how this plays out. I trust the forum staff in these matters.
Heh heh, that rules ME out!
I don't have any strong opinions here - let's just see how this plays out. I trust the forum staff in these matters.
#22
Guest_mikez_*
Guest_mikez_*
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- Guests
Posted 08 July 2010 - 02:08 PM
Looks like this will slip by without challenge. Too bad.
I took several days to digest before responding. First instinct was not to bother. Won't let the door hit me...but;
I decided to share my reasons and let the delete buttons fall where they may.
First of all, sorry folks, spades is spades...and a popularity filter is nothing but a way for the ruling cliche to suppress unpopular opinions and/or personal criticism.
Nobody wants to hear cliche or elite but lets break it down.
What percentage of forum users work for state agencies or the academic field? What percentage have access to or own expensive photo equipment bought with grant money? What percentage hold collection permits and/or get access where others do not? Those of us who do not will be intimidated, unwilling to be unpopular.
Now look at the group [assuming it was more than one] that came up with this popularity contest. Check your percentages again. Hmmm.
Let's take another look. What percentage of forum members who have access and permits and underwater cameras have made worthwhile posts recently? Yes, some, but mostly not.
Now lets filter according to whinning and carping and picking fights. [Sorry cliche]
Lastly, lets pick just one, the whinniest, carpingest most likely to get bunched panties, and filter just that one ruling member by entertaining, educational, enjoyable or even a nice pic once in awhile. You can see where this is going...it's not post merit.
On the subject of NANFA membership, I hope everyone saw my earlier post where I disavow my membership having not paid in at least a year.
I'm a little mystified by the perception that NANFA members are more ethical than non-member. You mean you don't like me now, but if I send you $20.00 I'm somehow a better man??????
Personally, I have no recreation budget. Even this laptop belongs to someone else. $20.00 is a weeks food for me or one meal with one kid.
I want to know what, besides ethics, do I get for $20.00? The forum is free. The magazine doesn't come close to tapping the potential talent and is 98% geared toward academics. There must be other stuff, right? Where are the posts highlighting NANFA in action? What do they do?
If it's outreach, someone forgot to tell the forum mods. They're more interested in casting out, not reaching out.
To me this is the ultimate US vs THEM and every day that goes by the gap widens.
Fish keepers will not be able to keep the privileges we now enjoy if we sit back and shut up just so we don't get voted unpopular.
I took several days to digest before responding. First instinct was not to bother. Won't let the door hit me...but;
I decided to share my reasons and let the delete buttons fall where they may.
First of all, sorry folks, spades is spades...and a popularity filter is nothing but a way for the ruling cliche to suppress unpopular opinions and/or personal criticism.
Nobody wants to hear cliche or elite but lets break it down.
What percentage of forum users work for state agencies or the academic field? What percentage have access to or own expensive photo equipment bought with grant money? What percentage hold collection permits and/or get access where others do not? Those of us who do not will be intimidated, unwilling to be unpopular.
Now look at the group [assuming it was more than one] that came up with this popularity contest. Check your percentages again. Hmmm.
Let's take another look. What percentage of forum members who have access and permits and underwater cameras have made worthwhile posts recently? Yes, some, but mostly not.
Now lets filter according to whinning and carping and picking fights. [Sorry cliche]
Lastly, lets pick just one, the whinniest, carpingest most likely to get bunched panties, and filter just that one ruling member by entertaining, educational, enjoyable or even a nice pic once in awhile. You can see where this is going...it's not post merit.
On the subject of NANFA membership, I hope everyone saw my earlier post where I disavow my membership having not paid in at least a year.
I'm a little mystified by the perception that NANFA members are more ethical than non-member. You mean you don't like me now, but if I send you $20.00 I'm somehow a better man??????
Personally, I have no recreation budget. Even this laptop belongs to someone else. $20.00 is a weeks food for me or one meal with one kid.
I want to know what, besides ethics, do I get for $20.00? The forum is free. The magazine doesn't come close to tapping the potential talent and is 98% geared toward academics. There must be other stuff, right? Where are the posts highlighting NANFA in action? What do they do?
If it's outreach, someone forgot to tell the forum mods. They're more interested in casting out, not reaching out.
To me this is the ultimate US vs THEM and every day that goes by the gap widens.
Fish keepers will not be able to keep the privileges we now enjoy if we sit back and shut up just so we don't get voted unpopular.
#23
Guest_farmertodd_*
Guest_farmertodd_*
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- Guests
Posted 08 July 2010 - 05:18 PM
Oh. Was that all you wanted, was some outreach?
INVITED PRESENTATIONS & SYNERGISTIC ACTIVITIES
2010
• The Maumee River Drainage Network - "It" Rolls Downhill. Friends Earthcare Witness, Bowling Green, OH.
• Aquatic Diversity of the Toledo Area. GK-12 Summer Course for Fellows and Teachers, University of Toledo, Toledo, OH.
• Lucas County Big Day for Fishes - Field trip sampling four aquatic environments across Lucas County for Fishes, Toledo Naturalists Association, Toledo, OH.
• Geologic and Botanical Context for the Michigan Botanical Society Spring 2010 Foray, Perrysburg, OH. (also organized all the field trips)
• Licking the Wounds – An overview of Toledo Area streams: Their Provenance, Perils & Progress, Start High School , Toledo, OH.
• Meet Your Stream – Fishes of the Blanchard River. Field trip with the Toledo Naturalists Association, Findlay, OH.
• The Secret Lives of Unionid Mussels. Washtenaw County Parks, Milan, MI.
• Ecological dimension and adaptation of fish community in Ten Mile Creek. Invited field trip and lab activity with the Field Ecology course. Lourdes College, Sylvania, OH.
• Enhancing Environmental Education and Careers: Restoration Project for the Ottawa River at the University of Toledo. Toledo Early College High School, Toledo, OH.
PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT
2010
Monitoring E. coli in the Swan Creek System (MESS). University of Toledo & Lourdes College, Toledo & Sylvania, OH (January 2010 – ongoing) Developed collaboration between University of Toledo researchers and Lourdes College Field Biology course for citizen scientist investigation of sewage-generated bacterial issues in the Swan Creek Watershed. This is part of the GLISTEN program: http://www.ncsce.net...es/GLISTEN.cfm.
Enhancing Environmental Education and Careers: Restoration Project for the Ottawa River at the University of Toledo. Toledo Early College High School, Toledo, OH (January 2010 – May 2010) Working with a cohort of TECHS students on a three year river restoration project on the campus of the University of Toledo to promote careers and environmental engagement among the students.
Scott High School Stream Team. Scott High School, Toledo, OH (January 2010 – April 2010) Worked with a select group of Environmental Science juniors and seniors at an urban high school to apply a model of stream processes to the landscape scale of Toledo, Ohio. The activity helped hone scientific method, environmental appreciation, and produced study skills necessary for survival in college courses.
MEDIA COVERAGE
Quoted and photography appeared in “Bite Sized Fish”, full page color Sunday Feature, The Toledo Blade, May 30, 2010. (http://www.toledobla...ART16/100539984) (check out the pdf!)
Interviewed on Environmentally Sound with Larry Burns. WJR760 April 27, 2010.
Quoted in “High school students help investigate large fish kill.” Ohio Outdoor News, February 26, 2010.
Quoted in “UT student to receive Brundage Scholarship”, The Toledo Blade, January 18, 2010. (http://www.toledobla.../NEWS04/1180312)
Quoted in “Scott's watershed team gets immersed in work”. The Toledo Blade, December 13, 2009. (http://www.toledobla...IST22/912130359)
Yeah, boy, a $20k salary can go a long way! Especially when I'm paying out of pocket to collect my data so I can graduate some day, since no agencies have small grant programs any longer. Man, I'm just rollin' in this liberal conspiracy! Or maybe you'd just like to see what I was doing when I was actually getting paid to work, instead of the former pro bono time...
http://www.farmertodd.com/streamtable/ (this is how I spent my Brundage Award - on this stream table and then gas money to drive people to streams that aren't so screwed up - bills, we have loans for bills)
Oh, then there's those pesky 5 papers I need to write, and the unionid data I collect as a two week class with area high school teachers in Lake Erie where there "aren't" any unionids because of zebra mussels. Did I go a couple places with people who were non-academic, non-agency, using fishing licenses too? I sort of recall that. Somewhere.
So, I apologize that I couldn't find time to write any of this up for your satisfaction in AC or on the Forum. This spring, was, um, a little bit busy. But you're right, it was me and everyone else.
Todd
INVITED PRESENTATIONS & SYNERGISTIC ACTIVITIES
2010
• The Maumee River Drainage Network - "It" Rolls Downhill. Friends Earthcare Witness, Bowling Green, OH.
• Aquatic Diversity of the Toledo Area. GK-12 Summer Course for Fellows and Teachers, University of Toledo, Toledo, OH.
• Lucas County Big Day for Fishes - Field trip sampling four aquatic environments across Lucas County for Fishes, Toledo Naturalists Association, Toledo, OH.
• Geologic and Botanical Context for the Michigan Botanical Society Spring 2010 Foray, Perrysburg, OH. (also organized all the field trips)
• Licking the Wounds – An overview of Toledo Area streams: Their Provenance, Perils & Progress, Start High School , Toledo, OH.
• Meet Your Stream – Fishes of the Blanchard River. Field trip with the Toledo Naturalists Association, Findlay, OH.
• The Secret Lives of Unionid Mussels. Washtenaw County Parks, Milan, MI.
• Ecological dimension and adaptation of fish community in Ten Mile Creek. Invited field trip and lab activity with the Field Ecology course. Lourdes College, Sylvania, OH.
• Enhancing Environmental Education and Careers: Restoration Project for the Ottawa River at the University of Toledo. Toledo Early College High School, Toledo, OH.
PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT
2010
Monitoring E. coli in the Swan Creek System (MESS). University of Toledo & Lourdes College, Toledo & Sylvania, OH (January 2010 – ongoing) Developed collaboration between University of Toledo researchers and Lourdes College Field Biology course for citizen scientist investigation of sewage-generated bacterial issues in the Swan Creek Watershed. This is part of the GLISTEN program: http://www.ncsce.net...es/GLISTEN.cfm.
Enhancing Environmental Education and Careers: Restoration Project for the Ottawa River at the University of Toledo. Toledo Early College High School, Toledo, OH (January 2010 – May 2010) Working with a cohort of TECHS students on a three year river restoration project on the campus of the University of Toledo to promote careers and environmental engagement among the students.
Scott High School Stream Team. Scott High School, Toledo, OH (January 2010 – April 2010) Worked with a select group of Environmental Science juniors and seniors at an urban high school to apply a model of stream processes to the landscape scale of Toledo, Ohio. The activity helped hone scientific method, environmental appreciation, and produced study skills necessary for survival in college courses.
MEDIA COVERAGE
Quoted and photography appeared in “Bite Sized Fish”, full page color Sunday Feature, The Toledo Blade, May 30, 2010. (http://www.toledobla...ART16/100539984) (check out the pdf!)
Interviewed on Environmentally Sound with Larry Burns. WJR760 April 27, 2010.
Quoted in “High school students help investigate large fish kill.” Ohio Outdoor News, February 26, 2010.
Quoted in “UT student to receive Brundage Scholarship”, The Toledo Blade, January 18, 2010. (http://www.toledobla.../NEWS04/1180312)
Quoted in “Scott's watershed team gets immersed in work”. The Toledo Blade, December 13, 2009. (http://www.toledobla...IST22/912130359)
Yeah, boy, a $20k salary can go a long way! Especially when I'm paying out of pocket to collect my data so I can graduate some day, since no agencies have small grant programs any longer. Man, I'm just rollin' in this liberal conspiracy! Or maybe you'd just like to see what I was doing when I was actually getting paid to work, instead of the former pro bono time...
http://www.farmertodd.com/streamtable/ (this is how I spent my Brundage Award - on this stream table and then gas money to drive people to streams that aren't so screwed up - bills, we have loans for bills)
Oh, then there's those pesky 5 papers I need to write, and the unionid data I collect as a two week class with area high school teachers in Lake Erie where there "aren't" any unionids because of zebra mussels. Did I go a couple places with people who were non-academic, non-agency, using fishing licenses too? I sort of recall that. Somewhere.
So, I apologize that I couldn't find time to write any of this up for your satisfaction in AC or on the Forum. This spring, was, um, a little bit busy. But you're right, it was me and everyone else.
Todd
Edited by farmertodd, 08 July 2010 - 05:50 PM.
#24
Guest_bumpylemon_*
Guest_bumpylemon_*
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- Guests
Posted 08 July 2010 - 06:08 PM
you guys do alot of work. i applaud you. i wish i could go out with some people and witness a day in the field doing field work. wanna bring me in for bring your son to work day 
ill get the beer!
ill get the beer!
#25
Guest_Brooklamprey_*
Guest_Brooklamprey_*
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- Guests
Posted 08 July 2010 - 06:21 PM
I guess I really do not see the use in this system either as it is ambiguous and easily abused. I do not think that I would have agreed to implementing it. As Mike stated for some reason this seem to be a system that quickly turns things sort of "Highschool" with the Jocks and the Geeks duking it out over turf... I do not think that all have the Maturity or understanding of it's use in a manner as defined. Nor is it being well explained to the users of the forum about the appropriate use of this with the intended purpose, which is content and not charecter.
However, I will say it is worth a trial period and as long as it is implemented I believe it should be carefully scrutinized to see if a desired effect is noticed. Of coarse I do know my friends and Colleagues well (The so called Ruling cliche.. thats an amusing one). I do know that this is already being done.
In short the Forum leadership needs to explain better the use of this and what is considered abuse of this, and the Membership in general needs to let this experiment run it's coarse. I know very well that if Drew, Uland or Nathan see this going afoul that changes will occur. Who knows maybe it will work....
However, I will say it is worth a trial period and as long as it is implemented I believe it should be carefully scrutinized to see if a desired effect is noticed. Of coarse I do know my friends and Colleagues well (The so called Ruling cliche.. thats an amusing one). I do know that this is already being done.
In short the Forum leadership needs to explain better the use of this and what is considered abuse of this, and the Membership in general needs to let this experiment run it's coarse. I know very well that if Drew, Uland or Nathan see this going afoul that changes will occur. Who knows maybe it will work....
#26
Guest_Drew_*
Guest_Drew_*
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- Guests
Posted 08 July 2010 - 07:07 PM
We're not really trying to tell people how to do things. We figured we'd put it out there and see what happens. Chaos? maybe...
The original intent was to make people think before posting.
It also is a form of self-moderation. The moderators are always accused of being heavy-handed when deleting posts/topics. You will see that a number of posts have a handful of negative votes. That is your fellow forum members indicating that they don't believe the post belongs.
The original intent was to make people think before posting.
It also is a form of self-moderation. The moderators are always accused of being heavy-handed when deleting posts/topics. You will see that a number of posts have a handful of negative votes. That is your fellow forum members indicating that they don't believe the post belongs.
#27
Michael Wolfe
-
- Board of Directors
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- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 08 July 2010 - 07:32 PM
What percentage of forum users work for state agencies or the academic field? What percentage have access to or own expensive photo equipment bought with grant money? What percentage hold collection permits and/or get access where others do not?
I think you are a little off base here. Off the top of my head, I know that Uland, Casper, Dustin and I have all posted some very nice pictures (if I do say so myself) and video... and that the cameras were bought out of packet... that we are not academics or government employees (just hobbyists)... and hold no special permits (because it doesn't take any special permits to photograph a fish underwater)... so while there may be some folks that fit your description (I don't know, but am willing to believe you if you say so), there certainly seems to be a lot more of us that are just hobbyists "diving in" (yes literally) to what we enjoy doing.
Edited by Michael Wolfe, 08 July 2010 - 07:34 PM.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#28
Guest_Brooklamprey_*
Guest_Brooklamprey_*
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- Guests
Posted 08 July 2010 - 07:36 PM
We're not really trying to tell people how to do things. We figured we'd put it out there and see what happens. Chaos? maybe...
The original intent was to make people think before posting.
It also is a form of self-moderation. The moderators are always accused of being heavy-handed when deleting posts/topics. You will see that a number of posts have a handful of negative votes. That is your fellow forum members indicating that they don't believe the post belongs.
I still think the best thing that could be done is to eliminate post counts.. Too bad the software does not allow it and no fix has been done to correct this as an option yet.
#29
Guest_Skipjack_*
Guest_Skipjack_*
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- Guests
Posted 08 July 2010 - 08:42 PM
Personally, I love this system. I think that ultimately it will be very beneficial. Essentially the forum members will dictate what they expect of the content. It does have the potential for abuse, but I believe most people are good, and honesty will win out. I think it will spur a lot of members to think before they post.
I do have to agree with Richard on the post counts though. Post counts can really become a status symbol for forum junkies. Could this be hidden, and only visible when you actually visit someones profile, so that it would not be so obvious?
Either way, I am confident that the forum staff will manage this reputation system well, and will curb any abuses. Heck, they can probably see who is voting, and will be able to contact members if they see abuse of the system. I am just guessing on this.
I think what we all have to bear in mind while rating a post is that we are rating it for content, and not whether or not we agree with it. Posters might actually pride themselves in having a positive reputation, and strive to write well written high content posts.
I do have to agree with Richard on the post counts though. Post counts can really become a status symbol for forum junkies. Could this be hidden, and only visible when you actually visit someones profile, so that it would not be so obvious?
Either way, I am confident that the forum staff will manage this reputation system well, and will curb any abuses. Heck, they can probably see who is voting, and will be able to contact members if they see abuse of the system. I am just guessing on this.
I think what we all have to bear in mind while rating a post is that we are rating it for content, and not whether or not we agree with it. Posters might actually pride themselves in having a positive reputation, and strive to write well written high content posts.
#30
Guest_blakemarkwell_*
Guest_blakemarkwell_*
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- Guests
Posted 08 July 2010 - 09:19 PM
I guess I really do not see the use in this system either as it is ambiguous and easily abused. I do not think that I would have agreed to implementing it. As Mike stated for some reason this seem to be a system that quickly turns things sort of "Highschool" with the Jocks and the Geeks duking it out over turf... I do not think that all have the Maturity or understanding of it's use in a manner as defined. Nor is it being well explained to the users of the forum about the appropriate use of this with the intended purpose, which is content and not charecter.
I completely agree, Richard - two thumbs up for you! At times I feel it's just another way for people to get their back patted (and I personally don't want or need that). Furthermore, the ratings shouldn't be applied to the member, but to the content (each topic and post). With each "+" and "-" rating being summed, all the numbers are doing is pigeonholing the NANFA members and guest into a hierarchy system (similar to post numbers being discussed).
To be honest, I'm not too worried about it. We have a great forum staff that are trying out different methods to tighten the forum up and so far there is less chatter, but unfortunate high school byproducts as well. The bottom line is that the forum staff are running out of patience and trying to lower their complacence that has allowed members and guest to post dumb content before checking Google, Petersons Field Guide, or what is needed for a proper identification (not a brown blurr), etc. A forum that isn't forever changing is one that is dying. Welcome the change and ride it out and if it sucks - the forum staff are bright enough to figure it out.
Blake
#31
Guest_Drew_*
Guest_Drew_*
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- Guests
Posted 08 July 2010 - 10:15 PM
User Reputation is no longer on. Only post votes will be displayed which the moderators will use as guidance.
I'm looking into hiding post counts. It is displayed everywhere and we've never seen it as an issue to be honest. We've been around for almost 4 years and the highest post count is ~2500.
I'm looking into hiding post counts. It is displayed everywhere and we've never seen it as an issue to be honest. We've been around for almost 4 years and the highest post count is ~2500.
#32
Guest_Uland_*
Guest_Uland_*
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- Guests
Posted 09 July 2010 - 10:51 AM
Basically, we're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't.
Moderating in the traditional sense worked for about 3 years. Content remained strong but mods/staff suffered the Nazi tag with this style.
As will to maintain this moderating style waned, content took a distinct nose dive. With a collapse of content, so did NANFA member participation. Essentially we've experienced two forum styles.
Instead of me being the Nazi, it's your turn. I understand the skepticism of the reputation system and please remember, this is a trial. This gives every single member on this forum a voice and if used properly, can be a great tool.
This forum is first and foremost a way for NANFA members to communicate. It's been left open to give people interested in native fish a chance many of us didn't have when we first joined - a place to have mature and serious discussion about North American native fishes. If you like the previous, you should join NANFA. Please read the NANFA mission statement. If you agree with that, you should join NANFA. My goodness it's $20 a year to join - about a buck and a half a month. Shoot, I spent more than that in airline tubing last year. Should NANFA pat itself on the back in public a bit more? I'd say so. Look for a pat on the back soon but don't look for too many more from me as it's just not my style.
So here we are...an open forum provided by NANFA where the NANFA membership are less inclined to use due to chatter among other reasons. It's obvious changes need to be made but yet unclear how to get the forum back on track. Please bear with us and feel welcome to provide ideas and solutions to the content and chatter issues that have recently plagued the forum. Those who think this trial reputation system is the end, this is nothing more than an additional way for the membership to communicate. I will add - shame on me for taking a lax approach to moderation the past nearly year.
video - posting and you
Moderating in the traditional sense worked for about 3 years. Content remained strong but mods/staff suffered the Nazi tag with this style.
As will to maintain this moderating style waned, content took a distinct nose dive. With a collapse of content, so did NANFA member participation. Essentially we've experienced two forum styles.
Instead of me being the Nazi, it's your turn. I understand the skepticism of the reputation system and please remember, this is a trial. This gives every single member on this forum a voice and if used properly, can be a great tool.
This forum is first and foremost a way for NANFA members to communicate. It's been left open to give people interested in native fish a chance many of us didn't have when we first joined - a place to have mature and serious discussion about North American native fishes. If you like the previous, you should join NANFA. Please read the NANFA mission statement. If you agree with that, you should join NANFA. My goodness it's $20 a year to join - about a buck and a half a month. Shoot, I spent more than that in airline tubing last year. Should NANFA pat itself on the back in public a bit more? I'd say so. Look for a pat on the back soon but don't look for too many more from me as it's just not my style.
So here we are...an open forum provided by NANFA where the NANFA membership are less inclined to use due to chatter among other reasons. It's obvious changes need to be made but yet unclear how to get the forum back on track. Please bear with us and feel welcome to provide ideas and solutions to the content and chatter issues that have recently plagued the forum. Those who think this trial reputation system is the end, this is nothing more than an additional way for the membership to communicate. I will add - shame on me for taking a lax approach to moderation the past nearly year.
video - posting and you
#33
Guest_mikez_*
Guest_mikez_*
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- Guests
Posted 09 July 2010 - 10:59 AM
Oh. Was that all you wanted, was some outreach?
INVITED PRESENTATIONS & SYNERGISTIC ACTIVITIES
2010
• The Maumee River Drainage Network - "It" Rolls Downhill. Friends Earthcare Witness, Bowling Green, OH.
• Aquatic Diversity of the Toledo Area. GK-12 Summer Course for Fellows and Teachers, University of Toledo, Toledo, OH.
• Lucas County Big Day for Fishes - Field trip sampling four aquatic environments across Lucas County for Fishes, Toledo Naturalists Association, Toledo, OH.
• Geologic and Botanical Context for the Michigan Botanical Society Spring 2010 Foray, Perrysburg, OH. (also organized all the field trips)
• Licking the Wounds – An overview of Toledo Area streams: Their Provenance, Perils & Progress, Start High School , Toledo, OH.
• Meet Your Stream – Fishes of the Blanchard River. Field trip with the Toledo Naturalists Association, Findlay, OH.
• The Secret Lives of Unionid Mussels. Washtenaw County Parks, Milan, MI.
• Ecological dimension and adaptation of fish community in Ten Mile Creek. Invited field trip and lab activity with the Field Ecology course. Lourdes College, Sylvania, OH.
• Enhancing Environmental Education and Careers: Restoration Project for the Ottawa River at the University of Toledo. Toledo Early College High School, Toledo, OH.
PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT
2010
Monitoring E. coli in the Swan Creek System (MESS). University of Toledo & Lourdes College, Toledo & Sylvania, OH (January 2010 – ongoing) Developed collaboration between University of Toledo researchers and Lourdes College Field Biology course for citizen scientist investigation of sewage-generated bacterial issues in the Swan Creek Watershed. This is part of the GLISTEN program: http://www.ncsce.net...es/GLISTEN.cfm.
Enhancing Environmental Education and Careers: Restoration Project for the Ottawa River at the University of Toledo. Toledo Early College High School, Toledo, OH (January 2010 – May 2010) Working with a cohort of TECHS students on a three year river restoration project on the campus of the University of Toledo to promote careers and environmental engagement among the students.
Scott High School Stream Team. Scott High School, Toledo, OH (January 2010 – April 2010) Worked with a select group of Environmental Science juniors and seniors at an urban high school to apply a model of stream processes to the landscape scale of Toledo, Ohio. The activity helped hone scientific method, environmental appreciation, and produced study skills necessary for survival in college courses.
MEDIA COVERAGE
Quoted and photography appeared in “Bite Sized Fish”, full page color Sunday Feature, The Toledo Blade, May 30, 2010. (http://www.toledobla...ART16/100539984) (check out the pdf!)
Interviewed on Environmentally Sound with Larry Burns. WJR760 April 27, 2010.
Quoted in “High school students help investigate large fish kill.” Ohio Outdoor News, February 26, 2010.
Quoted in “UT student to receive Brundage Scholarship”, The Toledo Blade, January 18, 2010. (http://www.toledobla.../NEWS04/1180312)
Quoted in “Scott's watershed team gets immersed in work”. The Toledo Blade, December 13, 2009. (http://www.toledobla...IST22/912130359)
Yeah, boy, a $20k salary can go a long way! Especially when I'm paying out of pocket to collect my data so I can graduate some day, since no agencies have small grant programs any longer. Man, I'm just rollin' in this liberal conspiracy! Or maybe you'd just like to see what I was doing when I was actually getting paid to work, instead of the former pro bono time...
http://www.farmertodd.com/streamtable/ (this is how I spent my Brundage Award - on this stream table and then gas money to drive people to streams that aren't so screwed up - bills, we have loans for bills)
Oh, then there's those pesky 5 papers I need to write, and the unionid data I collect as a two week class with area high school teachers in Lake Erie where there "aren't" any unionids because of zebra mussels. Did I go a couple places with people who were non-academic, non-agency, using fishing licenses too? I sort of recall that. Somewhere.
So, I apologize that I couldn't find time to write any of this up for your satisfaction in AC or on the Forum. This spring, was, um, a little bit busy. But you're right, it was me and everyone else.
Todd
If this was available and I missed it, humble appologies.
If not, each event should have been a thread. Type in a title and a link. I'd have clicked on every one. Drown out the offensive posts with stuff like that and the post merit concept is moot.
My satisfaction is not an issue here, although Todd your posts are always opened and enjoyed. I haven't got the AC in over a year but I'm sure it's great.
My point is, put up or shut up, not part of the solution...
Too busy to contribute?
Accept you're a member of an unrestricted public forum and do not open threads from people who's views bother you.
OR
Accept that you [collective You] can not abide the riffraff and take the forum off the public venue.
All part of the bigger issue which is where does the line between native fish hobbyests and professionals fall and where does NANFA fit in.
I'm seeing mutually exclusive Masters there.
For the record I've been involved with the exact same crap on other forums involving state agencies with aggressive anti-hobbyest agendas. My flying off the handle on this is not as quick and petty as it might seem. I've been gritting my teeth watching it come to this forum so the pop contest finished it for me.
Feel free to blame everything on me being a jerk. It's been used before elsewhere with some success.
#34
Guest_Dustin_*
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Posted 09 July 2010 - 12:33 PM
Mike I'm a little surprised to see your thoughts on this. I have always enjoyed your posts and respected your point of view(I don't anticipate that changing by the way). I think you have things very mixed up here. This forum has never been about professionals debating with other professionals about matters that the rest of us have no business with. The beauty of NANFA is that we get perspective from all walks of life, from upper level fisheries professionals and professors to average joe naturalists and all points in between. The issue here is not whether or not the so called "elitists" can put up with the banter, it is whether the banter holds enough merit to even be commented on in a constructive fashion. When someone posts a topic stating that there fish has died or that they went out today and struck out, what is there really to discuss? Especially, if this type post becomes a weekly occurrence.
I am fairly certain that this has been mentioned in the prior posts, but I think it is worth reiterating. The forum staff is made up almost entirely of non-professional native fish enthusiasts, as is the bulk of the NANFA membership. The professional members we do have are invaluable resources and alienating them with pointless banter is conterproductive, in my opinion at least. I get out regularly with professionals and it means a lot to me personally that they take me seriously and respect my perspective. I also think it is important for them to have a respect for NANFA and it's goals and membership.
I am in no way discounting the contribution of the every day naturalist, as I am one. I only want to see the discussions posted here to be that, constructive discussions, not banal banter that really serves no purpose. This most certainly pertains to the professionals as well as I have seen many rambling or curt responses from that side that posed no purpose as well. I totally understand how people can get totally hooked by the fishes around them and how they are excited to share every detail. I had the same feelings at one time, thankfully before the advent of the forum. I would just like to see posters consider their topics and responses before making them and only make them if they beieve that the response is constructive and the topic is informative.
In response to your comment about NANFA membership. No one believes that by paying $20 you become more responsible and ethical. What it means to me is that you respect the mission of NANFA and you appreciate the facilities that NANFA provides for you, including the forum. I understand that $20 can be burdomsome, but in the grand scheme of things it is a paltry sum. I suspect anyone could save that up in a couple of weeks if need be.
We want to continue maintaining the forum as a public feature as it fulfills one of our primary goals of outreach and education. It is also a great recruiting tool for the organization. What we don't want is for there to be an uproar every time we decide to make minor changes of content or format.
I am fairly certain that this has been mentioned in the prior posts, but I think it is worth reiterating. The forum staff is made up almost entirely of non-professional native fish enthusiasts, as is the bulk of the NANFA membership. The professional members we do have are invaluable resources and alienating them with pointless banter is conterproductive, in my opinion at least. I get out regularly with professionals and it means a lot to me personally that they take me seriously and respect my perspective. I also think it is important for them to have a respect for NANFA and it's goals and membership.
I am in no way discounting the contribution of the every day naturalist, as I am one. I only want to see the discussions posted here to be that, constructive discussions, not banal banter that really serves no purpose. This most certainly pertains to the professionals as well as I have seen many rambling or curt responses from that side that posed no purpose as well. I totally understand how people can get totally hooked by the fishes around them and how they are excited to share every detail. I had the same feelings at one time, thankfully before the advent of the forum. I would just like to see posters consider their topics and responses before making them and only make them if they beieve that the response is constructive and the topic is informative.
In response to your comment about NANFA membership. No one believes that by paying $20 you become more responsible and ethical. What it means to me is that you respect the mission of NANFA and you appreciate the facilities that NANFA provides for you, including the forum. I understand that $20 can be burdomsome, but in the grand scheme of things it is a paltry sum. I suspect anyone could save that up in a couple of weeks if need be.
We want to continue maintaining the forum as a public feature as it fulfills one of our primary goals of outreach and education. It is also a great recruiting tool for the organization. What we don't want is for there to be an uproar every time we decide to make minor changes of content or format.
#35
Michael Wolfe
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- Board of Directors
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- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 09 July 2010 - 01:06 PM
All part of the bigger issue which is where does the line between native fish hobbyests and professionals fall and where does NANFA fit in.
I'm seeing mutually exclusive Masters there.
Again, you are make a negative from a positive. This organization is at its best because of the mix of hobbyist and professional, sportsman and academic, aquarist and taxonomist. Yes differences make the relationships harder, but that is also where the benefit comes from. The last thing we need is another aquarium club (and I am a guy who came to this from the aquarium side of the hobby)... the second to last thing we need is another conservations group... and there are already professional societies for the academics and such. NANFA is where that diversity can come together and benefit from one another.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#36
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Posted 09 July 2010 - 01:15 PM
Dustin, thanks for spending the time to type out this very eloquently laid discussion of the issues at hand. I couldn't agree more, I think it refocuses the conversation. My apologies to all for running out red herring.
Mike, I share Dustin's surprise. I've always enjoyed your thoughts and posts. In fact, I recall inviting you along on one of the trips I organized, no? Not that I think an invitation extended from "The Hand of Todd" is something to be all excited about. But what I guess I'm trying to address is this division that seems so apparent to some people, yet I think there's many around here who're in your "camp" that would disagree that there's a true division.
What would you have thought if I post the same comments when I was a NANFA member and active participant for the 9 years BEFORE I went to grad school?
What if you knew that the expensive camera equipment (hence the division between a blurry cell phone picture etc) that I use was purchased by a private organization who approached me because I was out doing the kind of work listed above from my CV?
It's not about keeping a man down... It's about keeping a man from making 975 posts since April 2010!
And I guess I was totally wrong about membership. I was just looking for something, anything, to get the protein content of posts back up. I was making a suggestion based on those who've at least made a financial commitment to this organization. I personally think the rating thing is silly, but I'm game for anything at this point.
OR
Should we just settle for the lowest common denominator? Let our signal be saturated by noise?
I mean, c'mmon... Lance had to EMAIL me to let me know he'd post stuff from our MO trip, and I had overlooked the thread at least twice (based on when I checked the Forum those days and other posts on it) you know, since I was "putting up".
Todd
Mike, I share Dustin's surprise. I've always enjoyed your thoughts and posts. In fact, I recall inviting you along on one of the trips I organized, no? Not that I think an invitation extended from "The Hand of Todd" is something to be all excited about. But what I guess I'm trying to address is this division that seems so apparent to some people, yet I think there's many around here who're in your "camp" that would disagree that there's a true division.
What would you have thought if I post the same comments when I was a NANFA member and active participant for the 9 years BEFORE I went to grad school?
What if you knew that the expensive camera equipment (hence the division between a blurry cell phone picture etc) that I use was purchased by a private organization who approached me because I was out doing the kind of work listed above from my CV?
It's not about keeping a man down... It's about keeping a man from making 975 posts since April 2010!
And I guess I was totally wrong about membership. I was just looking for something, anything, to get the protein content of posts back up. I was making a suggestion based on those who've at least made a financial commitment to this organization. I personally think the rating thing is silly, but I'm game for anything at this point.
OR
Should we just settle for the lowest common denominator? Let our signal be saturated by noise?
I mean, c'mmon... Lance had to EMAIL me to let me know he'd post stuff from our MO trip, and I had overlooked the thread at least twice (based on when I checked the Forum those days and other posts on it) you know, since I was "putting up".
Todd
#37
Guest_bumpylemon_*
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Posted 09 July 2010 - 01:26 PM
It's not about keeping a man down... It's about keeping a man from making 975 posts since April 2010!
And I guess I was totally wrong about membership. I was just looking for something, anything, to get the protein content of posts back up. I was making a suggestion based on those who've at least made a financial commitment to this organization. I personally think the rating thing is silly, but I'm game for anything at this point.
OR
Should we just settle for the lowest common denominator? Let our signal be saturated by noise?
I mean, c'mmon... Lance had to EMAIL me to let me know he'd post stuff from our MO trip, and I had overlooked the thread at least twice (based on when I checked the Forum those days and other posts on it) you know, since I was "putting up".
Todd
i think we should call out the people who "love to post". i am going to take offense to that. you said 975 post since april 10.....well as of this post i am about to submit i have 975. and its from april 09. so maybe you can see how i think thats directed at me. i wanna know who all these posters who type nonsense are....im starting to think you guys are all talking about me. Sure ive made a few ID my fish pictures but i always post very good quality pics...and if im not mistaken one of my last ID Threads was a fish that the experts cant even agree on. so im sure thats thread worthy. and who cares if people want IDs? sometimes its hard for people to ID things. I can understand the "is this a trout or a flounder" obvs threads. but there are times i look at references photos i have and my books and i cant ID a fish. does that make me not worthy to post? its still an answer i want that i know i can get from people on here so i will post it. i post pictures of fish with 500 dollar lenses that i bought myself. so i dont wanna be compared to "a cell phone pic". and when i post trip reports i post photos of the fish i caught and their habitat. i had one continued hunt for the mudminnow thread which i ended up catching and supplying pictures. again may seem like a crap thread....but mudminnows are in like 3 spots in the whole state. so i believe actually catching one is thread worthy. im guessing it must be since 6 members have PMed me for the locality of them. i think these threads have people nervous to post because they feel singled out. ill admit i am one of them....esp now after you broke it down to 975 post april 10. I posted pictures of fish that ive caught, my changing for a SA cichlid tank to stream tank. do you knwo how many people have PMed me with advice? alot. they are scared to even pose a question on here. thats pathetic. who is to say who is above someone else. maybe to a person all this "scientific" well thought out posts are banter to them. there is always someone smarter than the next guy. so why cant we show compassion to someone else thats not as smart as us? i feel like i am one of the only ones commenting on new member IDs. how is someone "to good for that"? thats what i wanna know.
Edited by bumpylemon, 09 July 2010 - 01:31 PM.
#38
Guest_Dustin_*
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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:42 PM
Bumpy, no one is telling you or anyone else not to post and the last thing we want is for anyone to be afraid to post. We are just asking that you monitor what you post more efficiently and the you in this is not specifically you, but collective. I read nearly every post that is made on the forum but I comment maybe ten times a week. Is this because I couldn't come up with something witty to say? No, it's because I don't think I have anything useful to add to the converstation that hasn't already been stated. I have started less than twenty topics since the inception of the forum. Again, not because I couldn't come up with something to post but because I haven't had anything novel to open up for discussion.
#39
Guest_bumpylemon_*
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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:48 PM
Bumpy, no one is telling you or anyone else not to post and the last thing we want is for anyone to be afraid to post. We are just asking that you monitor what you post more efficiently and the you in this is not specifically you, but collective. I read nearly every post that is made on the forum but I comment maybe ten times a week. Is this because I couldn't come up with something witty to say? No, it's because I don't think I have anything useful to add to the converstation that hasn't already been stated. I have started less than twenty topics since the inception of the forum. Again, not because I couldn't come up with something to post but because I haven't had anything novel to open up for discussion.
again who is to judge whats novel or not. maybe something that isnt novel or interesting to you or people in the field is novel to a hobbyist or someone just starting out. i enjoy and look forward to reading people with experiences posts so i can learn and enjoy things that i wouldn't be able to enjoy otherwise. if people think we post for a post count thats ridiculous. i post because this stuff intrigues me. ive been on MFK affiliated sites for over 3 years and i have less posts combined then here. its because i am trying to learn and enjoy posting pictures of my fish or trip reports. this is the place for that..correct? if not here then where? i enjoy looking at pictures and getting ideas. and based on my inbox other members and non members do as well. and i feel like we are losing some members...well i know we are based on those PMs of people leaving their contact info if i needed to get in touch. i dont wanna lose people. there is a great foundation here. if im the problem then i have no problem stepping out of the picture to preserve the fundamentals of an "online forum". id like to think that i am a big part of NANFA North East. I try to bring people together for trips...which usually end up to about 3 of us. granted we arent in a heavily fished place but we are still here. ive been in contact with just about all Mass members for a good part of a year and have shared valuable info and kept people in the loop.
Edited by bumpylemon, 09 July 2010 - 02:58 PM.
#40
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:50 PM
Oh baby, we gotta keep that signal to noise ratio high! And mikez is part of that signal.
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