Reputation system

Oh baby, we gotta keep that signal to noise ratio high! And mikez is part of that signal.

guess im the noise...the only one in a year that has started ANY trip in NE. well this noise shall be silenced...

video - posting and you

This is perfect.

...the only one in a year that has started ANY trip in NE...

That YOU know of since a large majority quit posting their events and outings some time ago.

[attachment=10739:dramallama.jpg]
And please do not forget.....
[attachment=10740:184399_internet_serious_business.jpg]

the point is i think we are all taking this to serious. i think we have all made points about sucky content. im sure it will change. these open discussions are great for hammering out ideas. lets all not forget why we are here...the love of fish....(i hope) and the bonds we have made with each other.

Why are you asking me??? I just work with Gar, Lamprey and Mudpuppies. I do not read ID, Sunfish and Bass, or most anything on here anymore outside of anachronistic fish. Lost interest in that a long time ago.

i hear ya. well hopefully all you guys find the time and sincerity in your hearts to continue posting interesting things. i know id like to see lots of gar pics

the point is i think we are all taking this to serious. i think we have all made points about sucky content. im sure it will change. these open discussions are great for hammering out ideas. lets all not forget why we are here...the love of fish....(i hope) and the bonds we have made with each other.

Very nicely put.

I don't read every post, I look at the topic and who posted and decide from there. If that isn't enough for someone, in your Profile there is a "Manage Ignored Users" option. I haven't felt the need to use it, but I'm sure it does what it says.

(Edited for clarity. I don't want to offend anyone, really.)

Edited by schambers, 09 July 2010 - 07:12 PM.

Well we all started somewhere. We were all new, ignorant, and enthusiastic at one point in time.
I am going to use Bumpylemon as an example here. Justin is enthusiastic! He has in fact busted his butt collecting fish for me, and is in the water all the time. In a year or two he will know where to find almost every fish in his state. He will become the go to guy for finding fish in his region. I was there. You were there, we all were there. We need tolerance for newcomers that are enthusiastic. I think that can be accomplished. The problem is poor content. We have all been guilty of that as well.
That being said, I know I will get many negatives from this part of my post. NANFA can keep the forum content high quality very easily, and accomplish outreach very simply. Here is how. My outline.
First all content except for collection sites can be viewed by the general public, even the trading dock.
We have a welcome forum for guests.
We allow guests to post only in one or two forums, maybe general discussion, and ID maybe, these are only arbitrary suggestions.
Only actual paying NANFA members can post in other forums, but guests can still read them, learn from them,use the search function, and thus achieve the outreach goal. Which will keep the useless posting to a minimum. If you want the full benefit, you collect the aluminum cans to pay for the 20 bucks to be a member.
We act graciously to all newcomers who post in the available guest forums, and those who are serious enough to drop the $20 will drop the cash. The others will quickly bore with only posting in the section or two allotted them. We will need a good moderator, a patient moderator, for these sections.
This will not solve everything, there will still be some worthless post from paying members, but we can accept that, after all they have paid to post. But it will greatly cut down on it. It will also solve the "why buy the cow, when I can get the milk for free" factor. If you want all the forum benefits, you join the organization. I like AC, but really, If I had to pay 20 to use the forum, versus get AC, I would choose the forum. I hate to say it but AC is toilet reading material at best. I receive a lot of publications for possibly a slightly higher cost yearly, but the return is much better. The forum is the best tool NANFA has going. If the content keeps sliding, what is left.
Bottom line if people are expected to join NANFA to get something out of it, it ought to be good quality, if the only reason to join now is to support the organization, and get AC, why not include full forum benefits in that package. The forum quality should excel, the membership should grow, and outreach should not suffer.
The time to strike is now while the iron is hot. We know changes need to be made or we will lose old members who will only be replaced by transient MFK types who continue to degrade the content of our beloved forum.

Edit: I bet half the guys that whine about the $20 spend $5 per day on coffee, and pop. Get real. The $20 is the new $1. Membership is cheap as dirt.

Edited by Skipjack, 09 July 2010 - 11:24 PM.

Well we all started somewhere. We were all new, ignorant, and enthusiastic at one point in time.
I am going to use Bumpylemon as an example here. Justin is enthusiastic! He has in fact busted his butt collecting fish for me, and is in the water all the time. In a year or two he will know where to find almost every fish in his state. He will become the go to guy for finding fish in his region. I was there. You were there, we all were there. We need tolerance for newcomers that are enthusiastic. I think that can be accomplished. The problem is poor content. We have all been guilty of that as well.
That being said, I know I will get many negatives from this part of my post. NANFA can keep the forum content high quality very easily, and accomplish outreach very simply. Here is how. My outline.
First all content except for collection sites can be viewed by the general public, even the trading dock.
We have a welcome forum for guests.
We allow guests to post only in one or two forums, maybe general discussion, and ID maybe, these are only arbitrary suggestions.
Only actual paying NANFA members can post in other forums, but guests can still read them, learn from them,use the search function, and thus achieve the outreach goal. Which will keep the useless posting to a minimum. If you want the full benefit, you collect the aluminum cans to pay for the 20 bucks to be a member.
We act graciously to all newcomers who post in the available guest forums, and those who are serious enough to drop the $20 will drop the cash. The others will quickly bore with only posting in the section or two allotted them. We will need a good moderator, a patient moderator, for these sections.
This will not solve everything, there will still be some worthless post from paying members, but we can accept that, after all they have paid to post. But it will greatly cut down on it. It will also solve the "why buy the cow, when I can get the milk for free" factor. If you want all the forum benefits, you join the organization. I like AC, but really, If I had to pay 20 to use the forum, versus get AC, I would choose the forum. I hate to say it but AC is toilet reading material at best. I receive a lot of publications for possibly a slightly higher cost yearly, but the return is much better. The forum is the best tool NANFA has going. If the content keeps sliding, what is left.
Bottom line if people are expected to join NANFA to get something out of it, it ought to be good quality, if the only reason to join now is to support the organization, and get AC, why not include full forum benefits in that package. The forum quality should excel, the membership should grow, and outreach should not suffer.
The time to strike is now while the iron is hot. We know changes need to be made or we will lose old members who will only be replaced by transient MFK types who continue to degrade the content of our beloved forum.

Edit: I bet half the guys that whine about the $20 spend $5 per day on coffee, and pop. Get real. The $20 is the new $1. Membership is cheap as dirt.

And for the only time ever I'm going to use the Plus thingy saying I approve.....

Now these are just my thoughts but if the entire forum is closed with the exception of a single (or very limited) area, would Bumpy (Justin) ever have actually joined the forum?
We've always wanted to maintain an open forum and I hope to keep it that way but I guess I should ask.....does the membership want a closed forum?

Now these are just my thoughts but if the entire forum is closed with the exception of a single (or very limited) area, would Bumpy (Justin) ever have actually joined the forum?
We've always wanted to maintain an open forum and I hope to keep it that way but I guess I should ask.....does the membership want a closed forum?

I do not know how it would affect membership, but I do think Bumpy joined after you guys closed the trading dock.
As you said Uland, you guys are damned either way. You can all go back to being "nazi's" for all I care as long as the content improves. Seems to me improving the content is most important, Do it by any means necessary, but try to make it easier on yourselves. Being a strict moderator is no fun, not for the mods or the membership. Good luck, I am going fishing right about now!

Some may be shocked that I haven't chimed in yet, but I'm not really sure of my opinion on this yet. I see both sides of it and can see some good and bad with it.

Skipjack, well said.

I prob would have joined no matter what. ive made some nice friends on this site and bonds while out collecting with members. i cant say that other new members would join because they may not be as passionate as me. but i also cant judge someone else's passion. i look at it like this...take something away and the ones who really want it will pay for it. native fishes have become a huge part of my life. i tell everyone about it. my friends all think i am a nut. they all make fun of me because i fish wit a net. maybe we only want the passionate members.

Relax folks, you'll all be fine. Take it from a forum junkie from 1998, ALL topical forums are in crisis mood right now. It's some kind of natural evolution of a creature which was just born.

My own views shouldn't be considered to heavily. There's more to my reaction than meets the eye and most of that is baggage.

This is a great group. Some of you need to take yourselves a tad less serious, but a fun group and a quality group. Ride out the changes and come out stronger.
There's more change coming. VHS has put us on the radar around the country. More and more our "hobby" will be viewed the way herp keepers are now viewed - basically as irredeemable outlaws if not outright poachers. Shutting us out of not only possesion of common natives, but actually baring our access - on public land - and deeming passive photography as "To Take". And snake photography's a heck of lot more passive than seine/photo/release.
I hate to see top quality threads getting deleted because of a legally/ethically obtained photo with NO ID landmarks or text. No, not saying it's happened here - yet, that's how it evolves.
BTW the next step of the evolution as seen elsewhere, forum content is dictated by behind the scenes pressure. Forums are lurked by agents looking for poachers and setting up friendly idiots for trading over state lines.

My advice is shtcan the trading dock altogether - too much risk for group and individuals.
Let NANFA and the forum evolve together or apart, just take that one contentious potentially troublesome feature out.

For me, I already had a No Tell policy with several New England states. They can support an army of grad students trying to learn what I've forgotten about my patch.
I've come to realize it's ain't worth sharing. The old fishermen had it right all along. Funny me taking so long to see it. And mailing fish? God I love it! It is SO cool!!!
I will never do it again.

Be careful who you belittle and disrespect. They may be asking about largemouth bass food today, but maybe there's more.

So I realize that I'm still a newbie here, and that my view on all this may be completely ignored, but feel that I have a unique viewpoint on this whole "forum changes" topic. For background, I have been a forum member since January (7 months), but I haven't yet become a NANFA member, but am seriously considering it. I think this is my 10th post. I found and came to this forum when researching how to start my own native fish aquarium. It has been a great resource, and I've mainly just watched the forum and searched old posts trying to find out the information I needed and answers to the questions that I had. Nearly all of the information I've came here for, I found by browsing old thread or searching old topics. I now read this forum on a daily basis. I do have a graduate degree in fish management, but am not currently employed in the "fish" industry, nor is my primary research interest in non-game fish species.

Anyway that's my background info, and here are my thoughts on the new/proposed changes:

I've been a part of several internet forums, each very unique in their "tone" and how they are moderated. Each forum needs to be moderated according to their goals as a forum. I like the idea of keeping chatter off the board. At first I was a little put off by it as it was very different from other forums I've participated in, but quickly realized it did keep the board much more readable and user friendly for those interested in native fish and native fish keeping. I like the goals the mods are trying to achieve with their new changes, but agree it must be done smartly.

The reputation system would have been bad for new members, and I'm glad to see that was scrapped. The "post vote" function will work much better to achieve the goals of "thoughtful" posts. Although it could still be abused by people voting down posts they don't agree with even if they are still "thoughtful" posts.

I think skipjack's idea of making the entire forum publicly searchable is a great idea with only allowing "guests" such as myself to post in a few select forums. Skipjack's idea will allow for "old members" who don't want to deal with newbies to skip over the forums reserved for "guests", and it still gives "guests" an avenue to interact with NANFA, read the board, and find the answers to questions they may have. My only concern is that there needs to be enough members to interact positively with newbies in these public forums or essentially NANFA will have 2 mutually exclusive forums, and very few guests will ever "graduate" to be a member. Guests must be greeted cheerfully in the forums they are allowed to post in while they acclimate themselves to the forum's environment. Some guests may be turned off by not being able to post everywhere or not be allowed to publicly chat on the board, but most with real native fish interest will adjust their posting to fit the forum.

I came here for information and knowledge about a topic I was previously unfamiliar with. I'm the newbie/outsider NANFA is trying to recruit via the forum. If the forum was setup under skipjack's recommendations, I would have joined as a guest, made the same post in the introduction forum, and watched everything else (pretty much exactly what I've done anyway). In the meantime, I've have learned a lot about NANFA and their mission, issues, and concerns. If there wasn't a public forum, I definitely would have never joined, but now I'm close to doing so. At first I had absolutely no desire to join as an official member, but now I am quite close to doing so because I have found out through the forum that NANFA's mission lines up very well with my point of view on many aquatic issues.

Respectfully,
Jason

Now these are just my thoughts but if the entire forum is closed with the exception of a single (or very limited) area, would Bumpy (Justin) ever have actually joined the forum?
We've always wanted to maintain an open forum and I hope to keep it that way but I guess I should ask.....does the membership want a closed forum?

Yes, those overly interested in native fish will join "no matter what".

I think skipjack's idea of making the entire forum publicly searchable is a great idea with only allowing "guests" such as myself to post in a few select forums. Skipjack's idea will allow for "old members" who don't want to deal with newbies to skip over the forums reserved for "guests", and it still gives "guests" an avenue to interact with NANFA, read the board, and find the answers to questions they may have. My only concern is that there needs to be enough members to interact positively with newbies in these public forums or essentially NANFA will have 2 mutually exclusive forums, and very few guests will ever "graduate" to be a member. Guests must be greeted cheerfully in the forums they are allowed to post in while they acclimate themselves to the forum's environment. Some guests may be turned off by not being able to post everywhere or not be allowed to publicly chat on the board, but most with real native fish interest will adjust their posting to fit the forum.

Jason, kudos to you. I think the mods need to look at this post heavily when weighing decisions.

Skipjack has one hell of an idea.

Please save our forum.

We've always wanted to maintain an open forum and I hope to keep it that way but I guess I should ask.....does the membership want a closed forum?

Clearly not. But I do agree that some members-only access would prod a few holdouts into becoming dues paying members.

i dont like this reputation system at all. its already being used unfairly. im seeing it used negatively on posts that are good posts. just because it offends someone or they dont agree with it even if doesnt require a "scientific" answer

i dont like this reputation system at all. its already being used unfairly. im seeing it used negatively on posts that are good posts. just because it offends someone or they dont agree with it even if doesnt require a "scientific" answer

Link to example please.

I agree it's not being used responsibly on every occasion but it's giving the membership here a chance to guide the staff and mods for a change. I believe the membership will use this tool wisely once the system is "broken in".

i dont like this reputation system at all. its already being used unfairly. im seeing it used negatively on posts that are good posts. just because it offends someone or they dont agree with it even if doesnt require a "scientific" answer

That's funny because I've seen you do that same thing...

That's funny because I've seen you do that same thing...

I know! that proves my point. if someone is killing there fish I'm gonna negative mark it. if someone acts to good for someone else I'm gonna negative mark it. if someone is an A hole I'm gonna negative mark it. at the same time I positively marked things that are beneficial even if its from the same members who I've negatively marked before. i have nothing against anyone on this site.


for one...this thread has all kinds of -
http://forum.nanfa.o...h__1#entry78605

granted some are wrong IDs...but then you have bruce going in there and not contributing at all (no offense) and he doesnt get - marked...then i edited my statement (since you cant delete a post) and changed it to PM sent and im negatively marked...whats so negative about saying PM sent lol. then Uland in another thread to ken said PM sent...no - there. so you see my point? its not across the board being applied. and when the thread starter post pics and posted what he caught and asks for an ID he is - marked. and that continues throughout that whole thread. thats when sample.

im on over 11 various forums and I've seen this rep come and go on all but 1 of them. it never lasts. i get the moderating itself thing but at the same time it's like ok people dont like a post like that then I'm not gonna bother posting at all.

i do keep hearing about the nazi mods. what was that about? i think ive seen one theard deleted here since ive been here (tglassburner situation). and maybe a few posts with swears. out of all the forums im on (phone, music, movies, downloading, fish ect)this forum has needed very little modding compared to any of them. and thats hats off to a great membership.




and now ill edit this post to point out the - in here. everything i said was true. and i showed proof.

Edited by bumpylemon, 13 July 2010 - 10:11 AM.

I know! that proves my point. if someone is killing there fish I'm gonna negative mark it. if someone acts to good for someone else I'm gonna negative mark it. if someone is an A hole I'm gonna negative mark it. at the same time I positively marked things that are beneficial even if its from the same members who I've negatively marked before. i have nothing against anyone on this site.

And that to me is a fine illustration of the problem with using a rating system. Different folks will use it in different ways for different purposes and reasons. As others have stated, there are good points and bad points about the rating system. Let's just see how it works out. You almost MUST have faith in our moderators since they are doing a quite thankless job.

Like the weather, if you wait long enough, it'll change.

Dean