Elassoma Gilberti

Even on the tropical fanatic forums (you know, the ones where they tell you not to use wild-collected driftwood/substrate/feeders because they might carry diseases, and to be careful of plants because introducing snails is the worst thing that can happen to an aquarium) they recommend a fair number of plants said to grow down to 1.5 watts per gallon. But that rule, besides being more or less made up anyway, doesn't account for the geometry of the tank or reflector or the depth of substrate. Just two inches of extra substrate in a 55 gallon tank increases the radiation flux at the bottom of the tank by over 25%, and on the leaves of a 3 inch plant by about 35%. Also it was based on normal output T-8 flourescent lighting, which produces radiation mostly outside the useful spectrum for aquatic plants. 2.5 watts per gallon of T5 high output light with a good reflector is likely much more than sufficient.

Nothing in the above paragraph should be taken to mean that good lighting isn't essential to growing plants, however. I've certainly killed more than my share trying to grow "low light" plants under commercial aquarium lighting strips.

It would be nice to know the ages of these sick fish. Perhaps age is a factor in their susceptibility to pathogens that are otherwise not a significant health risk. Elassoma are relatively short lived fish. Has this happened to any of the fish known to be relatively young?

It would be nice to know the ages of these sick fish. Perhaps age is a factor in their susceptibility to pathogens that are otherwise not a significant health risk. Elassoma are relatively short lived fish. Has this happened to any of the fish known to be relatively young?

No, none of the younger fish born in my tanks have gotten sick. Both of the fish that got sick (the female that got bloat and the male that got dropsy) were from the batch that was originally sent to me in August, which was 9 months ago, so they were probably at least one year old.

So the one watt per gallon rule does not apply to fluorescent lights. The bulb I prefer is this model....

I'm looking at that post now and I see that I said one watt per gallon at one point, when I meant to say the "three watt per gallon rule". Drat. Typos. Oh well, I was talking about how bogus it was to measure your quality of light in watts, anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter.

gzeiger, I agree, the whole watt per gallon idea is a bad rule of thumb because it doesn't account for substrate, reflector, etc.

Actually, bulb age is a big factor, too. Bulbs dramatically decrease their lumen output over time, decaying much more rapidly than you'd think. But if you just follow the "watt per gallon" rule and don't bother to understand much about lights, then you might keep the same bulb for too long and your plants would suffer for it. So I think people should consider lumen per gallon, light temperature (6500K is best), bulb age, reflector, etc when they're setting up a tank, not just a universal "watt per gallon", which might not be successful.

Edited by EricaWieser, 03 April 2011 - 11:57 AM.

Oh, and I finished clearing out that bucket tank this weekend. In the process of emptying it, I found two Elassoma gilberti juveniles. I'm not sure how they got in there (I didn't put them there). The only thing that went from the main tank to the bucket tank was extra plants sometimes. I guess they must have stuck to the plants as eggs and then grown up in the bucket tank. They didn't know how to react to the social cues of the other fish when I put them in the main tank. A big dark male came up to one, basically flaring if an Elassoma could flare like a betta can. The juvenile just looked at him like, "?" and he charged it, forcing the juvenile to flee. I guess they'll learn pretty quickly.

I wonder if baby male Elassomas, raised alone, would learn to do the whole color changing and dancing thing? I've noticed that the young, right as they are changing from sexless to male, follow the older males around for a little bit. When the older male turns dark and starts dancing, often the younger male tags along and tries to join. You can see it happen in a couple of my videos:

You can see the younger male learning from the older male from 1:46 to about 2:15.

I wonder if dancing is a learned behavior or an instinctual one? I guess the way to answer that question would be to raise a batch of fry completely independently from the older fish and to document if they learn to dance and whether they were older when they first danced than males who had been raised with older, actively dancing males. Has anybody ever tried that?

Edited by EricaWieser, 03 April 2011 - 12:08 PM.

I've been cleaning out tanks recently because I'm moving soon and I'm trying to downsize.

In December, I removed all of the adult Elassoma from the 10 gallon tank and put them in the 55 gallon tank, and then removed fry for a while afterwards from the 10 gallon tank. Well, I left the tank with water in it this whole time with no filter, light, food or anything happening with it, except that a very persistent algae grew that made the water entirely opaque with green. I would periodically scoop cups of the green water into the main tank, but otherwise basically ignored it.

So I set about readying the tank for cleaning and eventual draining. Not wanting to reach my hand into an opaque aquarium, I added a filter to it (the one that had been on the bucket tank) two days ago and, when that didn't clear the obstinately green water, three drops of a commercial algae killer made for aquariums. It cleared the tank water and, lo and behold, there was an Elassoma gilberti in there. This juvenile was so large, it was practically an adult. I have no idea what it was eating, considering how there weren't even barely any snails in there because the leeches had eaten them all, but somehow it survived.

This makes me question my "maybe they eat flakes" theory. The two Elassoma gilberti in the bucket tank might have been surviving the same way the one in the 10 gallon tank was; on some food source that I have yet to identify. I wonder what they were eating.

Edited by EricaWieser, 05 April 2011 - 11:47 AM.

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And that is why the Bacopa monnieri does not please them. It's the same size as they are, so they can neither hide among its fine fronds (as they do in the ceratophyllum demersum and cabomba caroliniana) nor can they hide under its large leaves (as they do with the anubias, see this photo http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html ).

Edited by EricaWieser, 06 April 2011 - 10:18 PM.

Update: The fish are doing well. There are always four or five males dancing around and flaring at one another at any given time. I add crushed fish flakes once a day or so to keep the general food level up. There are also still blackworms in the tank for the Elassoma that can't figure out to eat flake food. The blackworms seem to be maintaining their population.
This really is an easy fish to care for in the home aquarium. I wish it was more well known.

Subdued courtship dance in presence of high density of males:

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These are all four of them different fish.
The third photo is of a juvenile less than half an inch long.
You can see the blackworm sticking out of the fish's mouth in the last photo. He's just ripped it out of the ground and is enjoying his meal.

Edited by EricaWieser, 10 April 2011 - 09:03 PM.

great video!

great video!

thanks

I was posting on the Aquatic Gardener's Association forum recently and learned something new from Karen Randall, a judge of the aquascaping contest and all-around smart person. Here is her quote, which was posted in response to me talking about high lumen and 6500 K light.

Just a couple of corrections/clarifications. Lumens measure the light that HUMANS can see, which is different than the light plants can use. For instance, a bulb with a lot of light in the green part of the spectrum is going to look brighter to us than a bulb with more light in the red and blue parts of the spectrum. But PLANTS use the light in the red and blue parts of the spectrum much more efficiently. Secondly, Kelvin rating has NOTHING to do with whether a bulb is a "full spectrum" bulb or not. Kelvin rating refers to how well the light from the bulb matches up with light coming from a hypothetical bar of metal, heated to a certain temperature. That is why it is measured in "degrees Kelvin". A bulb between 5500 and 6500K will (subjectively) come close to the color of mid-day sunlight. That does NOT mean that it is full spectrum light. To make sure that your lamps are full spectrum, you need to make sure that you purchase "tri-phosphor" lamps. (not typically a problem if you are purchasing from an aquarium supplier, but something you might have to watch if purchasing lamps at the big box hardware stores) A tri-phosphor lamp will have three different phosphors which fluoresce in the red, green and blue parts of the spectrum. The red and blue are what the plants need, the green makes the light more appealing for our viewing pleasure. Tri-phosphor bulbs can be purchased in a host of different Kelvin ratings.

The bottom line is that if you are using energy efficient fluorescent lighting or MH lighting, the old 2-3WPG rule still works. (1-5WPG under some extraordinary, specialized, circumstances) If you are going with LED lighting (which is still too rich for my pocketbook except on one small nano tank!) the WPG rule doesn't work, as these bulbs are MUCH more energy efficient. Over 2WPG and your plants will grow better and have less algae with supplemental CO2, Over 3WPG it is almost a must. There are certainly plants that can grow nicely without supplemental CO2, but it really limits the number of species you can work with successfully.

Link to quote: http://forum.aquatic....php?f=3&t=1427

So, I learned something, and I wanted to share it here to correct my previous post about aquarium light bulbs.

Edited by EricaWieser, 11 April 2011 - 02:02 PM.

I have always wondred about that - I assumed that a high CRI or "daylight" color temperature meant a spectrally balanced bulb. I tried looking up the spectra of different bulbs once, but a lot of manufacturers don't provide that data.

I solved my dilemma by keeping all of my plants outside. Now they just grow - doesn't matter what you do to them.

Edited by Irate Mormon, 11 April 2011 - 07:18 PM.

I have always wondred about that - I assumed that a high CRI or "daylight" color temperature meant a spectrally balanced bulb. I tried looking up the spectra of different bulbs once, but a lot of manufacturers don't provide that data.

I'm kind of the opposite; I would see the spectra on the side of the bulb packaging and not know what to do about it. Now I know to look for red and blue peaks *nods*

I solved my dilemma by keeping all of my plants outside. Now they just grow - doesn't matter what you do to them.

Ah, you're one of the lucky few who lives in the South where it's warm. Your rivers and creeks are actually capable of supporting plant life. If I stuck an aquatic plant outside in Cleveland, it'd freeze to death more than half the year.

Edited by EricaWieser, 12 April 2011 - 09:10 PM.

So, two things. One, I admire their ability to camouflage themselves. Two, the way they color change from blue&black to blue&clear is really cool.

Let's play "Spot The Fish". Can you spot the fish?
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Solution:
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And here's the color comparison, dark versus clear:
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You missed one on spot the fish. At the plant root line just to the left of the upper snail is another one.

You missed one on spot the fish. At the plant root line just to the left of the upper snail is another one.

Ah, yes.

I realized I hadn't posted an updated image of the tank for a while, so here it is.

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Edit: Grr, okay, I've changed the photo three times now and even though none of mine are blurry, they all show up blurry here. If you want to see a clearer image, please click on the hyperlink to the gallery hosted image. You can click on that to make it bigger.

Edited by EricaWieser, 13 April 2011 - 10:34 PM.

Your tank makes me want a gilberti tank, but I will be going with fish from my immediate area, meaning very near my house. Hence I am researching for Rainbow shiner, Tricolor shiner, Western blacknose dace, Alabama hogsucker, Speckled madtom, Frecklebelly madtom, Blackspotted topminnow, Southern studfish, and possibly Blue shiner, Striped shiner, Burrhead shiner, and certain darters as candidate species.

So I guess I will have to keep watching you here and on youtube and remain jealous.