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Elassoma Gilberti

Started by Guest_Okiimiru_* , Aug 22 2010 01:19 PM

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#201 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 02:53 PM

My guess would be a blood vessel leak. Hopefully it will heal on its own, unless it's an early symptom of some nasty infection or environmentally-induced illness, in which case Irate is probably right again. I haven't seen that in my Elassoma. Watch to see if she's still eating normally, though I guess thats hard to tell with a constant food supply. Also watch for abnormal (fast) breathing.

She looks fine so far, but it's hard to keep track of which female is which so I might be looking at the wrong one. I don't see any corpses at least.

I tested my tap water and compared the results to the 55 gallon tank (wondering how the kitty litter substrate changed things). Here are the results:
Tap water: pH 7.5, 6 degrees of hardness
Kitty litter tank water: pH 8.0, 17 degrees of hardness.
And I just read the small print on the pH test sheet I have been using for years, and on the very bottom in tiny print is says it's the saltwater one. So I've been thinking my water was 8.0 to 8.3 and really it's been 7.5 to 8.0. *headdesk*

Edited by EricaWieser, 07 January 2011 - 02:55 PM.

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#202 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 03:31 PM

Aww, one of my two new little males is trying to court females. He's experimenting with being able to show his blue colors, which makes for some interesting black & blue and clear & blue combinations.
This fish is half an inch long:

007resize.jpg 79.42KB 1 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...er/007.JPG.html (zoom out of previous picture)
They seem to start showing their male colors (blue, black) at half an inch regardless of how old they are. I'm glad, because I didn't want to wait the year-ish that it takes them to sexually differentiate in the wild. They did it in about four months of age in my tank. Yay

(I'm taking care to document this for future E. gilberti breeders)

One of my two adult males has claimed the area at the very left of the tank. The other has claimed the right-most portion of the ceratophyllum. This little male tries to exist in the middle of the cladophora between them. The other little male is on the very most right of the tank among the myriophyllum. Aw.
Current picture of the tank so you can see where I'm talking about:

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http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html
The females seem to congregate under the rock sculpture. I'm looking at three of them chilling there right now.

Edited by EricaWieser, 07 January 2011 - 03:51 PM.

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#203 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 02:50 PM

New picture! The little males born in my tank do not f33r me. Bwah ha ha ha. ^_^

021resize2.jpg 188.06KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa...21_001.JPG.html
http://www.ratemyfis...email.php/34824

Keep in mind that the fish shown above is only half an inch long! So tiny

Edited by EricaWieser, 10 January 2011 - 03:24 PM.

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#204 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 10 January 2011 - 07:56 PM

Do you notice / realize that the blue dash under this guys eye looks to be in the exact same place as the red mark you were worried about on the female? I was just struck by the similarity. Maybe the red mark had something to do with a 'normal' structure, that was growing / developing and therefore needed additional blood supply??

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#205 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 08:15 PM

Do you notice / realize that the blue dash under this guys eye looks to be in the exact same place as the red mark you were worried about on the female? I was just struck by the similarity. Maybe the red mark had something to do with a 'normal' structure, that was growing / developing and therefore needed additional blood supply??

Hmmm... Well, the fish in the photo is female, I think.
Yes, that red mark is in the same place as the males' blue mark. And the females do get a dash of blue there.
But this red is different than any of the marks shown by the other females or the ones shown by the males. It seems like a blood burst.
The little fish that turned into males did so at a much smaller size than the female with the red spot in the photo and they didn't show any red marks during their transition. I'm not sure what's going on. There still aren't any corpses and every fish I can see is free of red spots. So... hmm. *shrugs*

Edited by EricaWieser, 10 January 2011 - 08:16 PM.

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#206 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 10:33 AM

Update:
The fish that were born in my tank and grew up being stared at all the time by me are a lot more comfortable with my presence than the fish that came from elsewhere. These two youngest males will tolerate photos being taken of them without running away (see above picture). And best of all, I looked at the 10 gallon tank and was quite surprised by what I found there.
When I had first set up the 55 gallon tank as an Elassoma gilberti only tank, I took all of the adults and juveniles out of the 10 gallon and put them in there. Then, since the 10 gallon was (seemingly) empty, I tossed about 15 to 20 teensy tiny one to three day old swordtail (Xiphophorus hellerii) fry into the tank. I fed them crushed flakes about every four hours. Well it turns out that there were Elassoma gilberti still left in the 10 gallon after all, and quite a lot of them. They, having been raised up alongside of swordtails, are not shy at all. I looked in the tank this morning and yesterday and saw an Elassoma gilberti fry, the same size as the swordtail fry, swimming around in the airstone current in the middle of the tank and hanging out with everybody else. This is very unusual behavior for an Elassoma gilberti fry! Normally they hide as much as they can, stationary or only slowly moving on the bottom. It's very exciting to see one swimming around in the open. I can't wait for it to turn into an adult

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#207 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 01:02 PM

My older ones seem to get more nervous & shy. The tiny fry hide in the leaf litter of course, then when they're 1/3 - 2/3 grown they go through a "relatively bold" stage, then around 1 yr old most of them get nervous & shy again. My Badis ruber seem to go through a similar pattern: half-grown ones are the most active & visible.

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#208 Guest_mywan_*

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 02:20 PM

I wonder if this shy stage later in life coincides with sexual maturity, where it's advantageous to be more secretive in preparation for raising young? Evolutionarily it would make sense for the young to be more adventurous, spreading out into other available territories.

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#209 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 05:08 PM

I'll buy that: "Optimum Age for Dispersal". Would be interesting to try and quantify experimentally, IF you can separate the "Bold Wanderer" effect from the "Crap, All the Other Guys are Bigger and I Can't Hold a Territory" effect.

I wonder if this shy stage later in life coincides with sexual maturity, where it's advantageous to be more secretive in preparation for raising young? Evolutionarily it would make sense for the young to be more adventurous, spreading out into other available territories.

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#210 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 07:11 PM

Cute female:

013resize.jpg 177.91KB 0 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html

One comment about the wording of Mywan's post. They don't 'raise' their young persay. They eat them if they can find them. *shrugs* Not a big deal, sorry to nitpick.
I agree with Gerald's comment about the little ones not being able to hold a territory. I just watched the biggest male, three times larger than the littlest male, swim ominously close to him. The littler one fled.

Edited by EricaWieser, 12 January 2011 - 07:18 PM.

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#211 Guest_mywan_*

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 10:53 AM

When I said "raising young" I didn't mean to imply any particular care strategy, or lack of, by the parents. Merely that birthing in a secretive environment would be beneficial to the young, even from predation by the parents.

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#212 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 04:03 PM

Erica,

What are you doing to keep any new fry from getting sucked into your hang-on-the-back filter? I've been putting fine sponge cylinders over the intakes of my canisters. They are intended for another system, but seem to get the job done. You have to clean them periodically, of course.

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#213 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 09:26 PM

Erica,

What are you doing to keep any new fry from getting sucked into your hang-on-the-back filter? I've been putting fine sponge cylinders over the intakes of my canisters. They are intended for another system, but seem to get the job done. You have to clean them periodically, of course.

A long time ago I had purchased a $5 roll of fiberglass screen for building breeding box separators. The mesh is very easy to sew together with any needle and thread.
This is the product: http://www.homedepot...catalogId=10053
Well, when I first put in my filters I cut off a strip of fiberglass screen and wrapped it around the end of the intake tube for the filters. The mesh is very fine, and wrapped twice or so around the strands overlap so much that no fry could possibly fit to get sucked through.
I really like filter covers because they also serve as a primary layer of mechanical filtration, preventing dead plant bits from entering the filter and clogging it. Sponges would, I imagine, also work well. I just used what I had on hand at the time.
I've also seen people rubber band a nylon sock over the intake tube. *nods*

Edited by EricaWieser, 14 January 2011 - 09:29 PM.

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#214 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 10:09 PM

yay
While I was out of town, this somehow shot up to being ranked #178 out of 1778 planted tanks worldwide http://www.ratemyfis...-main.php/34771

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#215 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 12:37 PM

I am now really glad that I left water in the 10 gallon tank after removing all of the Elassoma gilberti adults and juveniles. There were a lot of eggs left in that tank that are even now hatching and turning into fry. I think some of the eggs take longer to hatch than others, or maybe the fry's growth rate is slower. Anyway, the lesson in this is that when you remove Elassoma gilberti from an aquarium, you might want to keep that aquarium full of water for another month or two as dozens of fry will continue to hatch out and grow up.

Photos of 10 gallon tank:

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http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html

And an Elassoma gilberti fry:

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http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html

Oh, and here's a picture I just took of its momma/aunt:

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http://gallery.nanfa...ze_002.jpg.html

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#216 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 07:24 PM

Just bought rotifer eggs on aquabid.com. They are really inexpensive and I like how you don't have to culture them like you do microworms. It will be interesting to see if these can replace microworms as the main fry food.

It's like I'm going from normal lazy to extremely, extremely lazy. Microworms work fine; I only have to change the piece of bread they're living on once every two weeks. But these rotifer eggs are dried and stored. So all I'd have to do is shake a couple out into the water every once in a while. Yay for extreme laziness, fish keeper edition.

Auction: http://www.aquabid.c...oodl

Edited by EricaWieser, 17 January 2011 - 07:25 PM.

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#217 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 07:52 PM

I photo-boxed one of my males, the second oldest.

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http://gallery.nanfa...ze_001.jpg.html

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#218 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 10:40 AM

Woot, my Elassoma gilberti aquarium broke into the top 100. Now it's ranked #97 of 1780 tanks worldwide. http://www.ratemyfis...-main.php/34771

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#219 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 08:02 PM

Woot, my Elassoma gilberti aquarium broke into the top 100. Now it's ranked #97 of 1780 tanks worldwide. http://www.ratemyfis...-main.php/34771

Congrats!

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#220 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 11:23 AM

So, I got a question from someone via the mail thing and I figured it was good info that I hadn't shared before and that I'd post it here.

Here's the post:

The big green mass on the left is Ceratophyllum demersum. The green leaves growing up and around the rocks are anubias nana. The plants in the back right are Myriophyllum aquaticum, and the ones in the very front on the right are Bacopa monieri.

No, they're not hard to grow. I have kitty litter substrate, so the two rooted plants, Myrophyllum and Bacopa, have very healthy root structures that they don't grow in gravel. If you try to grow those two plants in gravel, they will just die. But in kitty litter they absolutely thrive. It's great.
Link: http://www.thekrib.c...rate-jamie.html
I paid about $6 for 50 pounds of kitty litter, Special Kitty brand at Walmart.

My light is this light from Home Depot, and it's just resting on the top of the tank. Light: http://www.homedepot...catalogId=10053
It cost $20 and the bulbs were two 700 lumen, 6500 K bulbs for $8 total.

I basically ignore my tank. I never feed the Elassoma gilberti adults (they eat the California blackworms that live in the substrate) except to drop in a couple pellets once a week or so for the worms to eat. I add microworms to the tank about every other day, but I'm getting rotifer eggs in the mail so I'm eliminating microworms I hope in the future. Then it will truly be a "no maintenance" tank. You just have to look in it every now and then to make sure the populations are doing well. I check it to make sure there are still worms in there every now and then. There are.

So the total cost of my tank was, including shipping costs:
$25 for 55 gallon tank used on craigslist, no lid or anything
$45 for the hang on back waterfall AquaClear 55 gallon rated filter
$6.50 for 50 pounds of Special Kitty brand litter
$20 for light fixture
$8 for bulbs
$8 for myriophyllum starter plants on aquabid
$25 for anubias plants on aquabid
$30 for ceratophyllum plant package on aquabid
$8 for bacopa on aquabid
$3 for microworm culture
$20 for california blackworms
$15 for rotifer eggs
and then the fish, which I got from a fellow NANFA member.
Total cost of tank: $214.

That's actually a bit more expensive than I thought it had been. *shrugs* I guess little things add up. Still, I spent more on textbooks this semester. I think I'll post that cost breakdown on the main Elassoma page, to give people an idea of the setup costs.

Oh, but I just wanted to point out that I've made back my money on the plants because I sell the extra bits that grow. So they did technically cost me $71, yes, but because I sell the new shoots every couple of weeks, I think I've made that back.

I don't think that people should view fishkeeping as a hobby limited to the wealthy. It's very possible to own fish regardless of what your income status is. Even a poor college student like me can find a way to make it work. If you like fish and if you learn enough about how to keep them happy, then you can make it work.

Edited by EricaWieser, 20 January 2011 - 11:49 AM.