Elassoma Gilberti

Where did your plants come from?

Oh, from everywhere. I've tested out dozens of species of plants from different sellers on aquabid. The plants I still have now are the ones that liked my water's pH and hardness. It was like the shotgun method for compatibility. XD

Photo of tank just before I removed all the plants: http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html

Photo of tank after, with less dead plants and less leeches: http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html

Photo of dark brown big leech: http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html

Photo of two leech species in comparison to one another: http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html

Elassoma gilberti young chilling in the mulm in the 10 gallon after leech hunting spree: http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html

Please tell me what species of leech this is if you know:
youtube.com/watch?v=Jq1TKN4birQ
youtube.com/watch?v=LbAAlJkBVEM

Video of Elassoma gilberti young hunting microworms in 10 gallon tank before excessive cladophora algae and dead plants were removed:


(the videos are still processing, sorry if the link doesn't work for an hour or two after I post this)

Edited by EricaWieser, 14 December 2010 - 01:09 PM.

Update:
The tank is looking a lot better without all that cladophora algae in it. It's really coming together. I replanted a lot of the Najas guadalupensis so that now there are lots of tiny stems close to the ground planted near one another. Najas propagates readily from cuttings, so they should grow up together. I'll get a picture up later.

The fish are also adjusting well. They are eating flakes again, I think, because that's all I've been feeding them and they all have full bellies. There's about a dozen half inch fish in the 10 gallon tank. They are all clear or dusky, none are black or blue yet like males get.

The Elassoma gilberti in the 55 gallon, there are about 10 of them now, are much more visible than they used to be. Maybe it's because there's so many of them, but you can always see one somewhere in the tank doing something, whether it's creeping slowly along the bottom or staring at something intensely from their safe hiding spot within the plants. They seem to be adjusting nicely to their new home, or at least the females are. I haven't seen the male color up and do his mating dance yet.

I am considering getting rid of my swordtails. I saw one eat its own young last night, even after adding all those plants to protect them. They fry swam right into the big swordtail's mouth, who swallowed, and that was the end of it. My spotted fry. Stupid fry. So I'm tempted to give up breeding the swordtails and just switch the whole 55 gallon tank to an Elassoma habitat. I'm going out for kitty litter sometime in these next few days so I can switch the substrate over. I'm going to put all my fish and plants in a bucket or two, drain the tank, remove all the water, remove all the substrate, bleach the tank, thoroughly rinse, re-fill with pure kitty litter, and refill the tank with the Elassoma and Neolamprologus multifasciatus. Whether or not I put the swordtails back in is still up in the air. ...

Update:

Woot! I did it! I completely emptied the 55 gallon tank, scooped out all of the gravel, poured in fifty pounds of kitty litter, and refilled the tank and put a couple plants back in. The only fish/invertebrates in it now are two bettas, two swordtails, a dozen Elassoma gilberti, and three dozen freshwater clams. The Elassoma look so happy, swimming right in the open

I took pictures of the whole process and will be uploading later, yay

Edited by EricaWieser, 17 December 2010 - 07:49 AM.

I took pictures of the whole process and will be uploading later, yay

Here are the promised pictures:
Transformation of 55 gallon tank into Elassoma gilberti tank:

http://gallery.nanfa...before.jpg.html tank before
http://gallery.nanfa...mptied.jpg.html plants removed and half emptied
http://gallery.nanfa...gravel.jpg.html removing gravel
http://gallery.nanfa... empty.jpg.html tank empty
http://gallery.nanfa...litter.jpg.html special kitty brand litter
http://gallery.nanfa...y tank.jpg.html new substrate in empty tank
http://gallery.nanfa...filled.jpg.html tank half filled
http://gallery.nanfa...n tank.jpg.html plants and statues back in tank
http://gallery.nanfa...ttling.jpg.html settling
http://gallery.nanfa... after.jpg.html tank after
http://gallery.nanfa...w home.jpg.html female Elassoma gilberti enjoys new home

 10 tank after resize.jpg   165.29KB   0 downloads

Total cost: 50 pounds of Walmart brand 'Special Kitty' litter = $6.34

Edited by EricaWieser, 17 December 2010 - 06:10 PM.

Wow! Looks great! What a fun project. It's always interesting to see how these things progress. It can be surprising, sometimes in a good way, sometimes otherwise, but always educational I have recently done some similar redecorating projects. If you've never done this before (Don't know if you have or not), I'll throw out a few ideas for you:

Don't be surprised if in one to three days, everything gets cloudy and weird. When you disturb the "ecological" balance, it takes a while for things to reach a more stable "equilibrium" again. The cloudiness is a bacterial bloom. It might be harmless, it might create an oxygen deficiency, it might be fatal. Be prepared to do aeration (air stone and pump) and/or water changes as needed. Don't know if you're using any kind of filter, but that is also a big issue. Can't advise you unless I know what you are using or not using.

You may get weird algae blooms over time too. These take longer to develop. I've had bluegreen outbreaks in two of the three tanks I've worked on lately. I haven't figured out what causes it exactly. I think it's related to nutrients from the fish feed. Anyway, it will start to coat any and all surfaces, including the live plants. It covers like a blanket. Looks ugly once it gets well grown. Dark, bluegreen color. Has some effect on the ecology of the tank, but I can't define it. Anyway, I dosed with 10 milligrams of erythromycin per 1 gallon of water on two successive days. So that's 2 treatments of 10 mg/gal. Then just wait it out. It takes a week, maybe, for it all to die back, but seems to knock it out for good... at least so far. If you need to buy
erythromycin, it's very expensive to get the aquarium product. I found prescription type tablets on line for a much better price. I bought in quantity, so if you need any, let me know.

One more dire warning, the redec I did on my 150 was a little stressful (on me). It took several hours to do and I had the (canister) filter off that whole time. By the next morning, I had lost several fish. There was something very toxic in that process. Just changing water fixed it, and the remaining fish recovered well. However, I did have several with signs of an ich-like disease a few days later. They recovered as well, with no additional treatment, but it took a while. Stress induced, I suppose. Granted this tank was/is heavily stocked, fish wise. Light stocking will give you a better buffer for any unbalance in your ecosystem.

But, hopefully, none of the above will apply to you. Just want you to know, if it does, that you're not special that way

Don't be surprised if in one to three days, everything gets cloudy and weird. When you disturb the "ecological" balance, it takes a while for things to reach a more stable "equilibrium" again. ... Don't know if you're using any kind of filter, but that is also a big issue. Can't advise you unless I know what you are using or not using.

*nods* Thank you for the advice. The filter is an Aquaclear hang on back, model either 50 or 70 (I can't remember). I stuck the filter media in water during transition, as I do every time I move the tank around. I move this 55 gallon tank twice a year; once into my dorm and once out. The tank gets completely emptied and dry, gets stuck in the back of a pickup truck, driven down the highway for hours, and then re-set-up in its new home. The filter media sits safe like the fish in its own little Kordon® breathable bag, and the tank has not uncycled during a move yet. I appreciate the advice; it's good for as many people as possible to know about the nitrogen cycle and how to keep both their fish and their beneficial bacteria healthy.

Wow, awesome story about the bluegreen algae. It's funny how modern pharmaceuticals have useful secondary applications. I recently found out a dose of levamisole HCl will kill all the snails in a tank. (Levamisole hydrochloride is a farm animal dewormer)

Edited by EricaWieser, 17 December 2010 - 11:24 PM.

Oh, I suppose I should have guessed that you would be moving frequently. Sounds like you have plenty of experience. I have, though, had bacterial blooms on tanks even after a complete water change and/or thorough hydro cleaning. And that with the filter untouched. I think that changing the substrate has a profound effect on the microbial fauna, even if the filter is maintained alive. That's why I brought it up.

Yeah I was wondering about the levamisole. Did you get that at a farm store? I once had those little trap door snails in a tank, the borrowing ones. I drained the tank down to a few inches of water, poured in about a gallon of bleach and let it sit about a week. Then I rinsed it thoroughly and filled it back up, and those dang snails were still alive! Next time I'll levamisole their behinds! Thanks!

Mark - what do you suppose the "toxic" stuff could have been? Maybe H2S that accumulated deep under the gravel that you stirred up? Or an ammonia spike from stirred up organics?

Erica - the Myriophyllum (and all stem plants really) will do better if you plant each stem separately rather than bunched together.

I love that dark gray color of Special Kitty; been looking for sand that color. Sometimes I've used the gray sand/gravel they use here for sidewalk bedding (under bricks or concrete) but it's awfully labor intensive to sift and rinse. It has jagged angular pieces that I don't trust with bottom-feeding fish.

Mark - what do you suppose the "toxic" stuff could have been? Maybe H2S that accumulated deep under the gravel that you stirred up? Or an ammonia spike from stirred up organics?
...I love that dark gray color of Special Kitty; been looking for sand that color. Sometimes I've used the gray sand/gravel they use here for sidewalk bedding (under bricks or concrete) but it's awfully labor intensive to sift and rinse. It has jagged angular pieces that I don't trust with bottom-feeding fish.

That's funny, I'm always looking for lighter colored and more colorful substrates here. The natural sands and gravels you find here tend to be light and dark shades of gray. I'm talking about natural deposits and those mined locally for stone yards. I'm into the wild substrate thing now.

I didn't stir the substrate when I did the 150 project. I just dumped more layers on top. Oh, wait, I did dig up one corner to plant the pump vault for the riffle effect. Not a very larger area, though. I didn't notice any sulfur odor. Maybe an ammonia spike, though I had completely changed out the water in the process, so there was plenty of dilution. It happened (the toxic event) so quickly, I don't really have a good guess. My gut feeling is that the large canister (Magnum 350), being off so long (maybe 4 hours), brewed up something nasty that got spewed into the tank when I turned it back on. Whatever it was, it killed 'em good. The ones that weren't dead were nearly incapacitated, but just changing the water immediately rectified the situation. They recovered quickly. I did also add two airstones. Prior to that, as I recall, I was only using the outlet of the canister for surface agitation. -- Sorry, Erica, not trying to hijack your thread!

That's okay, I don't mind.

Um, here's a photo of the updated tank. I went and bought hundreds of blackworms today.
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 010resize.jpg   216.09KB   3 downloads
http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html

I'm not sure if I can split the Myriophyllum apart. They had previously all been stuck together in a terra cotta pot, and when I changed the substrate I took them out of the pot and put them right in the kitty litter. Their roots are all glued together in one big inseparable mass. Now that I know to keep them separate, I'll plant the cuttings that I take spaced apart. The new ones will be planted a little distance away and up the hill to the back right, and maybe they won't get that giant mess of roots this time. I had wondered if that was bad. Thanks for the info, Gerald.

And here is a photo of the density of Elassoma gilberti in the 10 gallon tank:
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http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html
I added some of the swordtail fry to the 10 gallon because they're too small to sell yet, and they seem to have encouraged the Elassoma to go out into the tank's main section and mingle. It's a party.

Edited by EricaWieser, 18 December 2010 - 08:16 PM.

You've got some real artistic talent and camera skills to make a tangled mass of worms look that beautiful.
It makes me want a "live foods" calendar on my kitchen wall.

Thank you, Gerald.

So, I read on wikipedia that another species of the Elassoma genus, E. zonatum, takes a year for males to become fertile. Could Elassoma gilberti be like that, too? My young were born in September, which means they're three months old now, which means that if they were Elassoma zonatum they'd still have at least eight months more.. How long do Elassoma gilberti males take to become fertile?

Edited by EricaWieser, 20 December 2010 - 09:50 AM.

Kept indoors, warm and well fed, I think most will be sexually mature by six months. In the wild it takes a year because they're not growing much during winter, except those in springs that stay warm year-round.

You've got some real artistic talent and camera skills to make a tangled mass of worms look that beautiful.
It makes me want a "live foods" calendar on my kitchen wall.

Agreed, that's a really, really nice photo!!

On a separate note, over time your Ceratophyllum will come loose from the substrate. It doesn't grow roots, and eventually the lower portion does off. Not a problem if you are willing to do and re-plant every now and then.

On a separate note, over time your Ceratophyllum will come loose from the substrate. It doesn't grow roots, and eventually the lower portion does off. Not a problem if you are willing to do and re-plant every now and then.

The ceratophyllum isn't buried, it's secured close to the ground by being wrapped around a half buried rectangle of 1/2 inch diameter tube PVC. You can see the white L joints of the exposed frame if you look closely at the edges of the plants. And thank you for the photo compliment

Edited by EricaWieser, 20 December 2010 - 05:54 PM.

The ceratophyllum isn't buried, it's secured close to the ground by being wrapped around a half buried rectangle of 1/2 inch diameter tube PVC. You can see the white L joints of the exposed frame if you look closely at the edges of the plants. And thank you for the photo compliment

Does the PVC have holes in it to let water in?

Does the PVC have holes in it to let water in?

No, but I opened one of the four L joints underwater when I first put it in and let the inside fill up with tank water. It won't sink if it's filled with air.

Here is a video of an Elassoma gilberti female enjoying her new tank:

I'm going to take the four swordtails out of the 55 gallon tank today, so that it's just an Elassoma gilberti and Betta splendens only tank. (The two male bettas aren't hurting anybody. But the swordtails are eating all of the blackworms).