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Breeding Leptolucania ommata

Started by Guest_Elijah_* , May 31 2011 12:32 PM

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#41 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:48 PM

Would you mind posting a picture of these males with green dorsal fins?

I will try though my camera is not good for that sort of detail. And in the meantime, I have to figure out how to post a picture here. I can't find instructions.

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#42 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:51 PM

I think that may be normal... I remember talking to some folks before that said that omatta from different portions of the range vary in color somewhat... I cant remember where from, but greenish ones were mentioned... the ones tha I had from the Okefenokee proper were bright lemony yellow.

And regarding population density, I remember too that the Elssoma were dominant in the swamp... the F. cingulatus and the L. omatta that we got were dominant at the boat ramp right at the entrance (less cover, shallower water).

I figured that would be the case with the color. Still it's very nice, if subtle.

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#43 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:56 PM

I have not seen any displays from the males.
I really love these fish> I don't get why other people do not get excited about them
I sometimes look at my fish with a flashlight at night. When I look at the omattas this way they have many greens and blues that I do not see from the T5's above. Beautiful fish in my book, even when I can't see the blues and greens the yellows and browns are electric in mine.

Yeah, me too. I love their colors and the way they move. I love how they are able to curve their bodies in two directions at once making a shallow "S" if viewed from above. I'll have to try the flashlight idea tonight. A couple of pictures I have taken with a flash bring out some blues in mine. Not sure if that is natural or not.

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#44 Guest_jetajockey_*

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 01:49 AM

It says "never in a community tank." Well mine are with E. zonatum now and have become much less docile, but not aggressive. I'm sure it lowers my chance of surviving fry,but being as how they always have blackworms and fresh daphnia in the tank, I am not too worried about that.
Really what I should do is set up a heavily vegetated container pond. These are wild caught and probably more colorful than those available from aquaculture sources. I have a hard time taking the risk of losing them by putting them outside. Birds, raccoons, frogs.... Frogs always find a way into my container ponds even when the sides are 2 and 1/2 feet high.

Chickenwire works wonders to avoid this. I have 8 20g tubs set up this way this year. I think the new PC term is 'poultry netting' lol.

I've not found any l.ommata yet, but they are apparently in range here, so it's just a matter of time.

Edited by jetajockey, 10 June 2011 - 01:50 AM.

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#45 Guest_Elijah_*

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 12:05 PM

Chickenwire works wonders to avoid this. I have 8 20g tubs set up this way this year. I think the new PC term is 'poultry netting' lol.

I've not found any l.ommata yet, but they are apparently in range here, so it's just a matter of time.

Right, why didn't I think of that! I used to raise bantam chickens, doves, and rabbits, you'd think it would occur to me. he. he. I'm still nervous to put them outside though.

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#46 Guest_nativeplanter_*

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 12:44 PM

Right, why didn't I think of that! I used to raise bantam chickens, doves, and rabbits, you'd think it would occur to me. he. he. I'm still nervous to put them outside though.

I've recently learned that chicken wire is for keeping chickens IN, not keeping predators OUT. :angry:

Needless to say, I'm currently building a poultry bunker...

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#47 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 11:07 PM

I've recently learned that chicken wire is for keeping chickens IN, not keeping predators OUT. Needless to say, I'm currently building a poultry bunker...

You too? I'm on a dog hunting mission. Keep my 10mm near at hand at all times. I did reinforce the Chicken Coop O' Death.

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#48 Guest_gzeiger_*

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 11:38 AM

I hope you're raising these chickens as feeders for squawfish or barracuda.

In the wild I didn't notice ommata particularly associated with plants or any other kind of cover. They seemed to school like Gambusia at the surface. Some structure might be good. They did seem to be close to the shallow water or fallen logs when available, although there were also schools well out in open water. The water was fairly deeply colored, so the leaves may make them feel more comfortable in that regard.

Edited by gzeiger, 11 June 2011 - 11:42 AM.

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#49 Guest_Elijah_*

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:09 PM

So on the container pond note... I live in a climate that can go from the 90's in the day to 50's, sometimes even 40's (especially this year) at night. If the omattas were in a 30 gallon container pond I wonder if the temp changes would be too extreme?

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#50 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 01:57 PM

So on the container pond note... I live in a climate that can go from the 90's in the day to 50's, sometimes even 40's (especially this year) at night. If the omattas were in a 30 gallon container pond I wonder if the temp changes would be too extreme?

Yeah, 40's aren't a good idea when trying to spawn a fish that comes from Florida. I personally wouldn't risk it.

Edited by EricaWieser, 11 June 2011 - 01:57 PM.

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#51 Guest_jetajockey_*

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 02:23 PM

So on the container pond note... I live in a climate that can go from the 90's in the day to 50's, sometimes even 40's (especially this year) at night. If the omattas were in a 30 gallon container pond I wonder if the temp changes would be too extreme?

Well, there's a few things you can do.

Volume- A large water volume = gradual temperature changes, so when it comes to this, more is better.

Bury it- Put it in the ground, another way to keep the temperature stable, a less attractive option would be to wrap it in insulation.

Heater- Run an aquarium heater out there.

I think you'll be okay if the temps are just swinging and not consistently staying in the 40s-50s.
One way to find out would be to put a thermometer in the tub and then check it periodically to see where it's at. Mine recently got all the way into the mid 90s, that's when I decided it was time to move them into the shade, now they stay around 80 or below.

Edited by jetajockey, 11 June 2011 - 02:24 PM.

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#52 Michael Wolfe

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North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 11 June 2011 - 06:14 PM

So on the container pond note... I live in a climate that can go from the 90's in the day to 50's, sometimes even 40's (especially this year) at night. If the omattas were in a 30 gallon container pond I wonder if the temp changes would be too extreme?

I would be more willing to risk it than what others have said... for the following reasons I think you would be OK...

Checked the weather for Waycross, Georgia (just on the north side of the Okefenokee Swamp where I have collected L. ommata) and even last month, there were plenty of overnight lows in the 50s... I am sure that it gets even colder in the real winter, that was just in May.
Agree with what others have said about large volumes of water... the water wll not cool off as fast as the air at all and will likely never get down to the low temp reported as the overnight low temp.
The fish will move to a micro habitat they like... a tub with a plant in it will create microhabitats... and of course different depths will also affect the temperature.
Fish are tougher than we think

You may not get the breeding productivity you want if it gets that cold every night... but I would bet that it would still be more productive than keeping them inside.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#53 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 04:29 PM

Update: Last Monday I put 4 large almond leaves in the 12 gallon tank. Before I put them in, the pH was 7.6. Today Saturday, the pH is 7.6 though the water has been stained, taking on the color of very weak tea. Thinking of adding a couple more after today's water change. I do like the look of the leaves in the tank - makes it look more "natural".

I also opened up the other tank quite a bit. Posts in this thread seemed to indicate they are in the open more than I had thought. They are more active now in that tank - more room to move.

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#54 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 07:44 PM

Update: Last Monday I put 4 large almond leaves in the 12 gallon tank. Before I put them in, the pH was 7.6. Today Saturday, the pH is 7.6 though the water has been stained, taking on the color of very weak tea. Thinking of adding a couple more after today's water change. I do like the look of the leaves in the tank - makes it look more "natural".

It might help to empty the tank and fill it with 12 gallons of reverse osmosis (RO) water, which can be purchased by the gallon from your local grocery store. Because RO water has such a lower mineral content than the water you currently have, it doesn't stay buffered in the basic range and instead quite easily falls into the acidic pH range. Then you'd see a measurable pH change, especially after adding peat moss to the filter.

Edited by EricaWieser, 18 June 2011 - 07:46 PM.

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#55 Guest_Elijah_*

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 02:01 PM

It might help to empty the tank and fill it with 12 gallons of reverse osmosis (RO) water, which can be purchased by the gallon from your local grocery store. Because RO water has such a lower mineral content than the water you currently have, it doesn't stay buffered in the basic range and instead quite easily falls into the acidic pH range. Then you'd see a measurable pH change, especially after adding peat moss to the filter.

In my experience adding straight up RO water is dangerous. I killed off some Cardinal Tetras that way. In my opinion it is better to change say 30% of the water and replace it with a mix of 70% RO and 30% water that you already are using. In this way the fish are not hit with a stream of water that has a highly different PH that can shock and kill them.
Also, in my Blackwater Amazon tank I have tons of driftwood, filter with peat, add blackwater extract, and at one point had added dried oak leaves, none of which changed my PH. With RO water added through multiple water changes until my PH was at 6.5 my tank has remained stable at 6.5. When I do water changes I mix about 1/2 tap x 1/2 RO. This method has worked very well for me. I have bred a couple different types of Apistogrammas in it.

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#56 Guest_jetajockey_*

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 05:27 PM

I've not found any l.ommata yet, but they are apparently in range here, so it's just a matter of time.

Just an update, found some

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#57 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 08:18 PM

In my experience adding straight up RO water is dangerous. I killed off some Cardinal Tetras that way. In my opinion it is better to change say 30% of the water and replace it with a mix of 70% RO and 30% water that you already are using. In this way the fish are not hit with a stream of water that has a highly different PH that can shock and kill them.

I'm sorry I didn't mention drip acclimation in my post. It's what I always do and assume other people do, too, when adding fish to water with different parameters. Here is a description of the procedure:

Or if you have a handy 5 mL measuring syringe from a test kit like I do, you can add 5 mL of the tank water to the water the fish came from every five minutes or ten minutes for an hour or two. It's a very successful method. I once drip acclimated neon tetras (which came from water that was about 5 dH) to my tank water (which was 17 dH, and should have killed them). Every single one survived. Drip acclimation is the method I would recommend for introducing the Leptolucania ommata to the RO water filled tank.

Edited by EricaWieser, 19 June 2011 - 08:21 PM.

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#58 Guest_Elijah_*

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 08:58 PM

Just an update, found some

Nice!

Edited by Elijah, 19 June 2011 - 08:58 PM.

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#59 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 12:00 PM

I might give the RO water a try but that is getting far into the water manipulation sort of thing I am usually reluctant to pursue. Glad of the tips on the problems associated with using it also. This would be the first time that I would be so drastically changing pH for a group of fish.

And jetajockey good news on your finding them. Will you be trying to breed them too?

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#60 Guest_jetajockey_*

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 04:23 PM

I might give the RO water a try but that is getting far into the water manipulation sort of thing I am usually reluctant to pursue. Glad of the tips on the problems associated with using it also. This would be the first time that I would be so drastically changing pH for a group of fish.

And jetajockey good news on your finding them. Will you be trying to breed them too?

Yes, I will eventually attempt to breed them. I had a nice colony going but suffered a die-off, cause still undetermined. I still have maybe half a dozen, mostly juveniles or females, so I will make a trip to get more adult males soon now that I know where they are easily found.