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Possible pygmy sunfish setup


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#41 Guest_jpappy789_*

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 02:14 AM

Things looking pretty much the same, well actually the plants are starting to fill in pretty well. I'll need to do some trimming before posting more pics.

Anyways, I should probably be focusing on the fish now. More specifically I need to figure out what I will be feeding them...

I kinda want to try blackworms. Do I essentially just dump them in and let them settle in the substrate? Would I be able to sustain a nice population with a few Elassoma or will they pick them off too quickly?

Any other live foods I should try? I will probably experiment with some frozen and flake to see what they like.

#42 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 08:07 AM

I kinda want to try blackworms. Do I essentially just dump them in and let them settle in the substrate? Would I be able to sustain a nice population with a few Elassoma or will they pick them off too quickly?

Yup, dump them in and let them dig their way into the substrate. I was initially able to sustain my blackworm population, but then the Elassoma bred up to 80+ fish and ate all the worms.

Fry really like to eat small nematodes, like microworms and walterworms.

#43 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 08:41 AM

Any other live foods I should try? I will probably experiment with some frozen and flake to see what they like.


They do very well on frozen foods... bloodworms are instantly recognized... as are mosquito larvae (which I only sometimes find in frozen form, but I buy em all when they come into teh LFS)... brine and mysis work as well.
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#44 Guest_jpappy789_*

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 02:25 PM

Thanks! Will definitely try getting a blackworm colony going. Frozen should be easy to "culture" ;)

#45 Guest_jpappy789_*

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 06:27 PM

The killies came today! I purchased some E. evergaldei that should be here sometime next week :D

#46 Guest_Scags_*

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:44 PM

I haven't had any luck with frozen foods. I have tried blood worms, brine shrimp, and tubifex worms. I can only get them to take live daphnia, brine shrimp, microworms, and black worms.
It appears their predatory response is triggered by movement. Although obviously some folks have conditioned their pygmies to take frozen foods. To be on the safe side I would try to always have live foods on hand to prevent starvation and death.

#47 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 01:31 PM

I haven't had any luck with frozen foods. I have tried blood worms, brine shrimp, and tubifex worms. I can only get them to take live daphnia, brine shrimp, microworms, and black worms.
It appears their predatory response is triggered by movement. Although obviously some folks have conditioned their pygmies to take frozen foods. To be on the safe side I would try to always have live foods on hand to prevent starvation and death.

My Elassoma gilberti adore frozen bloodworms. They despise and ignore frozen tubifex worms.
I will try to remember to take a photo later today of a pygmy sunfish with the bloodworm hanging out of its mouth, but until then, here are some pygmy sunfish darting forward as soon as the bloodworms are dropped into the water, excited about eating them:
Male: http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html
Male: http://gallery.nanfa...i male.jpg.html
Female: http://gallery.nanfa...lberti.jpg.html

A good percentage of my Elassoma did eat crushed flake food, but because I was unwilling to let the half of them or so that wouldn't eat flake starve to death, I discontinued the flake-only experiment and now feed them frozen bloodworms, live grindal worms, and micro/walter worms. The live grindal worms are a twice a week treat because I'm not very good at culturing them :oops:

Stuff my pygmy sunfish have and haven't eaten:
Frozen bloodworms: Adore. A little too large for the smallest Elassoma mouths, I sometimes snip them in half with scissors as they thaw off of the cube.
Frozen tubifex worms: Ignore. They don't like the way they smell. They don't like how long and thin they are. They don't like how they disintegrate upon thawing.
Live adult brine shrimp: Ignore. I'm a little disappointed this one didn't work out.
Crushed fish flakes: Some will eat it, some won't. I was unwilling to let the won't-eat-it percentage of the population starve to death so I discontinued feeding. The adult males lost all color and would not dance after several months of flake-only diet. Some fry did eat the flakes and would have grown up to become dancing males, but I broke and added worms because I missed them being happy.
Shredded frozen cocktail shrimp: I think it was too large for their mouths. I'm thinking about trying this again in the future. It was super inexpensive.
Live grindal worms: Favorite food. They love love love these. I'm only so-so at culturing them, so I tend towards feeding them less and keeping more of the worms in the culture, for fear of overfeeding and running out. They're very inexpensive to culture, though, only $12 for the initial purchase and then the worms'll eat three pellets of dog food like every two days.
Californian blackworms: The Elassoma love these. I don't like them because when the Elassoma can find food in the tank, they never learn not to fear your face. If the food only drops when your face is there, they learn not to flee when you look at them. In fact, they'll come out of the plants and dance at you. I have a video where one Elassoma just plain begged at me, like a needy puppy.
Fry: I've seen it happen once. But only once. They're not big fry eaters.
Plants: Nope. They don't really eat plants.
Leeches: Nope. The leeches were not significantly eaten. They were a burrowing species, though, so maybe that gave them an advantage.
Snails: Yup, baby snails are tasty to Elassoma. They love the tiny ones. I don't often notice how skewed the snail population is until I see the guppy tank has all ages of snails and there are only adults in the Elassoma tank.
Rotifers: Somewhat. The adults are too large but the fry do eat them.
Microworms/Walterworms: Yes, the fry love microworms. I have a video of a fry hunting on the substrate and pecking at them.
Freeze dried foods: You know, I should try this again. I tried feeding them freeze dried worms a long time ago back when the plants didn't reach up to the surface of the water. The Elassoma didn't swim up to the surface and by the time the freeze dried food hit the bottom it was all gross and they didn't eat it. But then during the flake feeding experiment, I discovered that Elassoma will eat food off of the surface provided there is sufficient plant cover for them to feel safe. So it's possible they might eat freeze dried food if there were lots of plants.
Pictures:
http://gallery.nanfa...ding 1.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa...urface.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa...urface.jpg.html


I think that's everything I've tried.

Edited by EricaWieser, 10 February 2012 - 02:01 PM.


#48 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 05:06 PM

Dont forget fresh-hatched brine shrimp: adults and fry > 2 weeks old love them. Chopped blackworms, fresh-hatched BS, and live Moina and mosquito larvae from my rain barrels are the foods I use most for pygmies. And rotifer/paramecium mix for newborns. Eventually Erica will find a roommate who tolerates live blackworms in the fridge, then she wont have to throw all the blackworms in the tank at once, allowing the fish to ignore her.

PS Erica - if by chance you're coming to the Raleigh aquarium workshop next weekend (Feb 17-19), my grindalworms died and I could use a few worms to re-start if ya dont mind. I can give you names of people in High Point and GBO who are coming if you need a ride.

#49 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:09 PM

PS Erica - if by chance you're coming to the Raleigh aquarium workshop next weekend (Feb 17-19), my grindalworms died and I could use a few worms to re-start if ya dont mind. I can give you names of people in High Point and GBO who are coming if you need a ride.

I'm definitely considering it; searching for fish would be way more fun than studying for the test I have once the weekend's over. Even if I don't end up going, I'd still give an innoculum of grindal worms to your friends if they're willing to stop by my place on their way out.

#50 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:45 AM

I will try to remember to take a photo later today of a pygmy sunfish with the bloodworm hanging out of its mouth

Photo: http://gallery.nanfa...odworm.jpg.html

#51 Guest_pleurothallid_*

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:05 PM

I really would like to emphasize the moina as a great food. I've cultured them both indoors and outdoors long-term with high success. Gerald, it's great to see you on here-- I knew when I was poking around about Elassoma you'd be here (it's Justin). I sent my breeding group out before I left for Panama and really miss having some around the lab. I'd really like to get some to try again at some point in the near future. I also would add that I had fantastic luck breeding them in a windowsill here in New Orleans. The seasonal drops in temperature (yet not very cold) seemed to help them induce spawning.




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