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75 gallon planted aquarium

Started by Guest_frogwhacker_* , Sep 18 2011 09:04 PM

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#21 Guest_frogwhacker_*

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 09:27 AM

Just ordered one LED strip light. Will give it a try.

Usil

Cool! Can't wait to hear what you think and see the pictures. Thanks for being the "guinea pig" and checking it out.

Steve.

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#22 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 09:28 AM

Just ordered one LED strip light. Will give it a try.

Usil

I really like the way that can go underwater, and putting a light in the space at the top of the aquarium underneath the lip is something I've never seen done before. I think you'll get a really neat asthetic look. Pictures, please

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#23 Guest_frogwhacker_*

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 09:56 AM

As far as allelopathy, I've read of people setting up planted aquariums that can go months without water changes and have no negative effects to the fish. I find this fascinating and would love to try it(while regularly checking water conditions of course). I really just want to be able to compile a list of plants that I know for sure I can keep together and avoid massive water changes.

The footprint of my tank is 48"X18" and 20" deep. I plan on the substrate being about 4" higher/deeper on one end where I will start about a 3" gravel creek bed in a corner. This creek bed will increase in width as it runs the full 48" of the tank until it is around 6"-7" wide at the other end. This gravel creek bed will be about 1" lower than the rest of the substrate. The main water flow of the tank will be coming down this creek bed via a series of strategically placed spray bars that will be partially buried in this gravel creek bed or hidden under rocks. I'll have a valve for every spray bar placed on the outside of the tank to control the flow in each section of the creek bed. I'm planning on dropping the flow as the creek bed widens. Most of this creek bed will be more toward the front of the tank. I'm hoping this will provide habitats for several different fishes.

I'm hoping to put clumps of something grassy looking and short along the edges of the creek bed and then some stem plants that at least loosely resemble trees toward the back of the tank. Basically, I'm picturing in my head some sort of a forest scene with a gravel based stream running through it.

Any ideas on plants that I can use to achieve this without dealing with a lot of allelopathic troubles?

Thanks.

Steve.

Edited by frogwhacker, 19 September 2011 - 09:56 AM.

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#24 Guest_frogwhacker_*

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 10:36 AM

I think you misunderstood me. There are two bulbs per four foot lithonia shop light.
Two light fixtures equals four bulbs. Here is a link to the product: http://www.homedepot...catalogId=10053
Its complete name, for when Home Depot inactivates that hyperlink, is "Lithonia Lighting All Weather 4 Ft. 2 Light T8 Fluorescent Unit Shop light". It uses two 32 watt T8 bulbs and costs $19.97.

You only need one to provide enough light for your plants if you get full spectrum bulbs. Two conveniently covers the top of the aquarium, though, if you overlap one slightly on another. I like covered tops so fish can't possibly jump out.

You're right. I sure don't know where I came up with the 3 at. Thank you.

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#25 Guest_MichiJim_*

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 10:36 AM

I just switched my 180 over to LED this weekend. It's too soon to draw any conclusions, but I did it mostly because it uses much less energy, and that seems like a good idea. That, and replacing bulbs creates waste stream issues. A couple of the guys at my local aquarium store are experimenting with them, too. So far, I like the looks. We'll see how this works out.

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#26 Guest_frogwhacker_*

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 10:44 AM

I just switched my 180 over to LED this weekend. It's too soon to draw any conclusions, but I did it mostly because it uses much less energy, and that seems like a good idea. That, and replacing bulbs creates waste stream issues. A couple of the guys at my local aquarium store are experimenting with them, too. So far, I like the looks. We'll see how this works out.

Did you use the LED strips? If so, how many are you using for 180?

Thanks for the reply.

Steve.

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#27 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 19 September 2011 - 11:12 AM

An update on LEDs and my experience. I have purchased 2 of the Marineland LED units (see spec sheets here) for a couple of my tanks:

One is an approximate 25 gallon bow front tank that has the 18-14" double bright unit on it. This is a walstad tank with no filtration and dense plant growth and a single large Enneacanthus sunfish. The tank is jammed with crypts, and some java moss and one other sword looking thing that I got from Jan at the Florida convention.

The other is a 75 gallon tank that has the 36-48" double bright unit on it. This is a tank that sits in the 'civilian' portion of my house and needs to look good for general viewing. It normally has a stream community (chubs, shiners, darters, madtoms) of 25 or so fish. It is moderately planted with java fern and 'peace lilly' or whatever that is called and some crypts.

I have had the smaller tank running this way for 6 months and the larger one for only a couple of months... but I saw no die back or yellowing of the plants when I put these lights on the tanks... They are very bright as far as viewing ability (for me to see the fish) and look very nice. They generate comparatively no heat. And have a very low profile look to them, which either looks nice, or is easy to hide in a full hood. Yes, they are pricey, but supposed to last for 4-5 years (17000 hours).

Anyway, one man's experience. Maybe not as many lumens as some would like, but seems to be good enough for my basic low light plants... and lots of lumens per watt and that is worth something to me.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#28 Guest_frogwhacker_*

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 12:36 PM

The other is a 75 gallon tank that has the 36-48" double bright unit on it. This is a tank that sits in the 'civilian' portion of my house and needs to look good for general viewing. It normally has a stream community (chubs, shiners, darters, madtoms) of 25 or so fish. It is moderately planted with java fern and 'peace lilly' or whatever that is called and some crypts.

I have had the smaller tank running this way for 6 months and the larger one for only a couple of months... but I saw no die back or yellowing of the plants when I put these lights on the tanks... They are very bright as far as viewing ability (for me to see the fish) and look very nice. They generate comparatively no heat. And have a very low profile look to them, which either looks nice, or is easy to hide in a full hood. Yes, they are pricey, but supposed to last for 4-5 years (17000 hours).

Anyway, one man's experience. Maybe not as many lumens as some would like, but seems to be good enough for my basic low light plants... and lots of lumens per watt and that is worth something to me.

Knowing that you've had success with LED's makes the price I've seen for these on amazon.com seem like something to think about. Less heat, longer life, less energy consumption...all good things. Thank you much.

Steve.

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#29 Guest_frogwhacker_*

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 12:43 PM

Maybe I should be asking if the set up I described in post #23 sounds feasible for a Walstad tank? If so, should I try going with the plants Walstad recommends for the start up(some native, some exotic) and then slowly adding the plants later that I want to create the effects I'm looking for, or can I find enough native plants to accomplish my goals and do a successful Walstad type start up? I hope this makes sense. Thanks for your patience.

Steve.

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#30 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 01:03 PM

Whatever bulb you do end up buying, look closely at its spectrum. You want to see high peaks at 400-500 nm and at 600-700 nm.
This is chlorophyll's absorption spectrum: http://www.chm.bris....l/chloroabs.gif from this website: http://www.chm.bris....lorophyll_h.htm
Bulbs may have an image of their emission spectrum on the side of the package, or the information can be found on manufacturer's website.

Also, I'm not really understanding the tank arrangement you're designing. Please draw your imagined setup and post a picture of your blueprint. I'm referring to something like these:
http://forum.aquatic...file.php?id=321 http://forum.aquatic...file.php?id=326

Edited by EricaWieser, 19 September 2011 - 01:27 PM.

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#31 Guest_frogwhacker_*

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 02:12 PM

Also, I'm not really understanding the tank arrangement you're designing. Please draw your imagined setup and post a picture of your blueprint. I'm referring to something like these:
http://forum.aquatic...file.php?id=321 http://forum.aquatic...file.php?id=326

Good idea. Hope this helps. Thanks. flow direction is from right to left.

Attached Files

75galdesign.png 26KB 3 downloads

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#32 Guest_NVCichlids_*

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 03:28 PM

Knowing that you've had success with LED's makes the price I've seen for these on amazon.com seem like something to think about. Less heat, longer life, less energy consumption...all good things. Thank you much.

Steve.

I had one of the marineland double bright LED strips on a 30" tank. I did not like them due to the price and that I had LED's dropping like flies. In the first week of having the fixture, 2 led's went out. I called the company and they said that I had too much power going into that light fixture.. Uhh... really? I have standard electrical outlets, no way is that possible. Then after another month or two, I had lost a couple more. Now about a year later, I have roughly 60% still working. The "long life" has not been in my fixture, and from what I know, you cannot replace the LED's. OH and they wouldn't replace/fix my fixture, so I was just basically out the money!

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#33 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 03:57 PM

<rant>

LEDs are popping up everywhere. I see them all the time now in street stop lights and 30% of the time I see dead bulbs in them. I am thinking that at the high price they currently are that they are simply not worth it at this time. The stated benefits of relibility and long life is hype and the probabliity seems high you will have wound up paying through the wazzo and not reap the stated rewards. Of course I am painting with a wide brush but it looks like you play heavy odds on getting units that don't pan out. Another 'Green' product not ready for prime time. Anyway, I am going to try this lower cost Chinese made unit but I don't have high hopes and am not buying it for the plants.

< /rant over>

Usil

Edited by Usil, 19 September 2011 - 04:00 PM.

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#34 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 04:34 PM

For the grassy plants I would have to say hair grass. For ground cover I would imagine glossostigma would give a bushy feel. As for tree like plants I think what you could do is take a few pieces of vertical driftwood and attach some riccia to the top for the leaves like they do here:http://www.google.com/imgres?q=aquascape&um=1&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&tbm=isch&tbnid=nQxY6Id1jWLO8M:&imgrefurl=http://kecuk.com/2011/08/09/how-to-make-the-aquascape.html&docid=-Tc-mgFb20IctM&w=800&h=477&ei=Gwd5ToG4K5TjsQKExMjlDQ&zoom=1&biw=1920&bih=878&iact=rc&dur=300&page=1&tbnh=117&tbnw=197&start=0&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:0&tx=134&ty=74. If you did the "trees'" just behind the streambed and only have them go 4-6 inches back then you could simply fill in behind the trees with an elodea or something like that.

Edited by Yeahson421, 20 September 2011 - 04:36 PM.

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#35 Guest_NVCichlids_*

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:25 PM

How do you intend to have all those spray bars hooked up>?

I cannot wait to see this! The idea is confusing my pea sized brain, but am excited to see!

Edited by NVCichlids, 20 September 2011 - 05:27 PM.

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#36 Guest_frogwhacker_*

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 02:06 AM

How do you intend to have all those spray bars hooked up>?

I cannot wait to see this! The idea is confusing my pea sized brain, but am excited to see!

The confusion is my fault. I'm often not good at explaining my ideas. I get excited and type faster than I think. My goal is to juxtapose two different habitats within the same tank while retaining somewhat of a natural look. The stream bed will be a riffle habitat for darters and behind that will be a calmer vegetated habitat for possibly orange spotted sunfish. I'm planning on some SRBD also, and I'll be interested to see where they go. One concern that I have though, is that I'm hoping that a flow width of only 3"-7" will be wide enough to keep the darters happy.

I will bury PVC under the substrate to get water to the spray bars. The stream bed will set slightly lower than the rest of the substrate so just a flat rock over each spray bar should hide them enough. I'm thinking of running two pumps to supply the spray bars and putting a 'T' in the PVC to let each pump run 2 spray bars. I hope to be able to hide a couple of sponge filters in the back of the tank to pull the water from .

I've got one high flow pump now that I'm not using, but it is just too noisy. Do you happen to have any ideas on what kind of inline pumps aren't so noisy? The tank is in the living room directly behind the couch so I'm going to want to find the quietest pumps I can.

I'll take some pictures of it when I get it going. I'll be starting my vacation in about a week and a half and I'll be off the month of October, so I'm hoping by the end of October I'll have the project completed. Seems like it shouldn't take nearly that long, but I'm way to familiar with the way some of my plans work out.

Thank you much.

Steve.

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#37 Guest_frogwhacker_*

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 11:31 AM

For the grassy plants I would have to say hair grass.

I Really like the looks of dwarf hair grass(Eleocharis acicularis), but I've read articles about it having some allelopathic tendencies so I'm a little concerned about using it, especially for a start up. I did order some Saggitaria subulata for another tank that I think might work for this. I'll see how it does.

As for tree like plants I think what you could do is take a few pieces of vertical driftwood and attach some riccia to the top for the leaves like they do here:http://www.google.com/imgres?q=aquascape&um=1&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&tbm=isch&tbnid=nQxY6Id1jWLO8M:&imgrefurl=http://kecuk.com/2011/08/09/how-to-make-the-aquascape.html&docid=-Tc-mgFb20IctM&w=800&h=477&ei=Gwd5ToG4K5TjsQKExMjlDQ&zoom=1&biw=1920&bih=878&iact=rc&dur=300&page=1&tbnh=117&tbnw=197&start=0&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:0&tx=134&ty=74.

That's really sharp looking. It's kind of hard for me to be able to see myself being able to create something that nice. -The vertical driftwood in your tank has given me the idea of possibly putting some dead twigs that look tree-like in the foreground. If I've got something that looks like a few dead trees in the foreground then it will still be easy to see the stream bed. I guess attaching some live plants to them might be a good idea if I keep them trimmed.

If you did the "trees'" just behind the streambed and only have them go 4-6 inches back then you could simply fill in behind the trees with an elodea or something like that.

That's a great idea. I hadn't thought of that, but I probably will try that type of approach.
Thank you so much for the ideas

Steve.

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#38 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 02:10 PM

The stream bed will be a riffle habitat for darters and behind that will be a calmer vegetated habitat...

Darters live in plants, too. That's what my profile picture is showing; it's a female Etheostoma spectabile hunting for swordtail fry amongst the Ceratophyllum demersum. If you give them a little bit of current, it helps them more easily lift their bodies up and they'll go all up in the plants.

Photo evidence:
http://img.photobuck...imiru/023-1.jpg
http://img.photobuck...imiru/022-1.jpg
http://img.photobuck...imiru/019-3.jpg

Also, you don't have to avoid plants because of their allosteric interactions. It's not that big of a deal. The only reason my Myriophyllum aquaticum got away with killing my Cabomba caroliniana was because I didn't do a water change for two months. But if you do regular water changes like most people do weekly anyway, then it won't be an issue. I've got 8 or 9 different species of plants in my tank right now all peacefully coexisting. It's very do-able. Especially when starter plants to try the species out only cost you $1-$3 when you buy all your plants from the same seller (mine was sweetaquatics.com, which let me combine shipping).

Last but not least, there are lots of planting ideas on the Aquatic Gardener's Association's Aquascaping Contest webpage. They're pretty nice.
Example: http://showcase.aqua...y=0&vol=2&id=70

Links:
2010: http://showcase.aqua...e=view-showcase
2009: http://showcase.aqua...e=view-showcase

Edited by EricaWieser, 21 September 2011 - 02:17 PM.

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#39 Guest_Orangespotted_*

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 05:07 PM

I Really like the looks of dwarf hair grass(Eleocharis acicularis), but I've read articles about it having some allelopathic tendencies so I'm a little concerned about using it, especially for a start up. I did order some Saggitaria subulata for another tank that I think might work for this. I'll see how it does.

I'm curious which articles you've read that stated hair grass is allelopathic. I don't keep E. acicularis myself, but I know two of my friends and one aquascape artist who have had no problems with it in some of their aquaria. In fact, one of my friends has recommended that I try it out in the past.
I do keep a different Eleocharis species (about 5-6" tall) that I found growing wild, and it's "gotten along with" the thick growth of other plants in the tank. Of course, I change the water frequently so if it indeed produces antiplant chemicals then the effects are probably diluted. Plus, because it's a different species, it may not be as allelopathic as E. acicularis if the latter is truly so.
I believe that if you perform water changes on a regular basis and provide each of the tank's inhabitants with what they need, you needn't worry about problems cropping up. Those short dense plants like E. acicularis really make critters like shrimp and petite fish happy to have such a nice hiding and feeding place. In any case, good luck with your tank!

Edited by Orangespotted, 21 September 2011 - 05:10 PM.

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#40 Guest_frogwhacker_*

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 11:07 PM

I'm curious which articles you've read that stated hair grass is allelopathic. of my friends

Here's a couple. I just googled it and came up with several. May not be the best way to find info., but it's quick.
http://www.apms.org/...ol29/v29p12.pdf
http://books.google....lopathy&f=false

Thanks for the reply.