Thanks to all who have given ideas, information, advice and time for my questions on this tank set up. I appreciate it greatly.
Steve.
75 gallon planted aquarium
Started by
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, Sep 18 2011 09:04 PM
84 replies to this topic
#42
Guest_CreekStomper_*
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Posted 22 September 2011 - 01:09 AM
So, your picture may be misleading, but how much water is actually going to be in this setup? With such a small depth and width, not to mention length, it seems like you're only going to have a few gallons of water, maybe ten to a dozen at best. It seems like you'll be using quite a bit of space for land area, making a miniature landscape scene, and have very little usable space for fish. It just doesn't seem like nearly enough room to even get a good riffle going, nonetheless get a slow area in behind it as well.
Josh H
Josh H
#43
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Posted 22 September 2011 - 01:14 AM
So, your picture may be misleading, but how much water is actually going to be in this setup? With such a small depth and width, not to mention length, it seems like you're only going to have a few gallons of water, maybe ten to a dozen at best. It seems like you'll be using quite a bit of space for land area, making a miniature landscape scene, and have very little usable space for fish. It just doesn't seem like nearly enough room to even get a good riffle going, nonetheless get a slow area in behind it as well.
Josh H
You're right. It's very misleading. The tank will be full of water, but the riffle should be mostly confined to what I hope to make look like a stream bed. The rest should have less flow for fish that don't prefer a lot of current. Thanks.
Steve.
#44
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Posted 22 September 2011 - 08:53 AM
Here's a couple. I just googled it and came up with several. May not be the best way to find info., but it's quick.
http://www.apms.org/...ol29/v29p12.pdf
http://books.google....lopathy&f=false
Thanks for the reply.
Actually, the Wooten and Elakovich article you gave implies that E. acicularis did not have an inhibitory effect on duckweed. It did on lettuce radicles (very young lettuce roots).
Allelopathy is a tricky thing to study. A lot of the studies on aquatic plants test for allelopathy on lettuce seedlings, which is sort of a hold-over from investigations for agriculture. In addition, it's easy to do in the lab. But these are innapropriate test subjects in my opinion, especially for plants that spread vegetatively. Preventing the growth of a seedling is a far different thing from inhibiting a mature specimen. For example, lawn "Weed & Feed" prevents germination by killing seedlings, but does not affect mature plants (at least appreciably). Studies that examine plants living together are confounded by other competitive factors. Really the only way to look at it is to use an extract of the plant investigated, and put it in the water of mature specimens. Even then, one needs to be cognizant of the concentration the test subject is exposed to. The lettuce seedlings and duckweed used in that article used up to 250 ppt of extract! Much higher than would be expected in a natural setting. Granted, an aquarium where the water wan't changed might have higher concentrations, but 250 ppt is really high.
Another thing to consider is that allelopathy might not really affect growth appreciably in your tank, but might just give the allelopathic plant a slight competitive advantage in certain environmental conditions in nature.
I've used E. acicularis in aquaria. Nice plant. It will likely grow into your stream, but so will any other plant that spreads. You'll have to weed it out occasionally.
#45
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Posted 22 September 2011 - 10:44 AM
Steve,
A little late to reply, but I have 2 36-48" Marineland Double brights on my 180. The aquarium is in my living room and I liked the look. So far my plants have shown no sign of distress (Java Ferns and Anubias).
And to NVChiclids, you can get too much power out of your wall socket. Either in steady state or in surges. I had that problem before, and I had all kinds of issues with electrical appliances (DVRs, answering machines) until the power company upgraded a transformer that was hit by lightning. Its not much, but it can cause problems if the equipment is sensitive enough. You may want to get this checked. A good surge protector, regularly replaced, can help.
A little late to reply, but I have 2 36-48" Marineland Double brights on my 180. The aquarium is in my living room and I liked the look. So far my plants have shown no sign of distress (Java Ferns and Anubias).
And to NVChiclids, you can get too much power out of your wall socket. Either in steady state or in surges. I had that problem before, and I had all kinds of issues with electrical appliances (DVRs, answering machines) until the power company upgraded a transformer that was hit by lightning. Its not much, but it can cause problems if the equipment is sensitive enough. You may want to get this checked. A good surge protector, regularly replaced, can help.
#46
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Posted 22 September 2011 - 11:44 AM
Just wanted to point out that you can't judge the health of plants in general by how well java ferns and anubias are doing. Those things are indestructible.So far my plants have shown no sign of distress (Java Ferns and Anubias).
#47
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Posted 22 September 2011 - 01:31 PM
Actually, they can be destroyed. I have proven that a few times; I am really not a plant person. But they are less light needy than most, which is why I named them in the post.
I also have no experience with the LED lights through a winter, so I may wind up less of a fan. But they do look nice and I liked the long life of the bulbs.
The aquatics manager of my local store is using one 36" double bright on a heavily planted 55 gallon as a test. It will be interesting for others that are using them to report back after 6 months and a year to see how we are doing. I am personally a supporter because of the lower power use and I hope they prove out, but I have been around long enough to see these kinds of things turn into a "flash" in the pan.
I also have no experience with the LED lights through a winter, so I may wind up less of a fan. But they do look nice and I liked the long life of the bulbs.
The aquatics manager of my local store is using one 36" double bright on a heavily planted 55 gallon as a test. It will be interesting for others that are using them to report back after 6 months and a year to see how we are doing. I am personally a supporter because of the lower power use and I hope they prove out, but I have been around long enough to see these kinds of things turn into a "flash" in the pan.
#48
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 22 September 2011 - 01:59 PM
I'm with you on that... I really like them generating so much less heat. I mean a light bulb (incandescent) shouldnt even be called that... over 75% of the energy is converted to heat, not light... they are heat bulbs that also put out a little light. I too hope the LEDs work out in teh long haul.Actually, they can be destroyed. I have proven that a few times; I am really not a plant person. But they are less light needy than most, which is why I named them in the post.
I also have no experience with the LED lights through a winter, so I may wind up less of a fan. But they do look nice and I liked the long life of the bulbs.
The aquatics manager of my local store is using one 36" double bright on a heavily planted 55 gallon as a test. It will be interesting for others that are using them to report back after 6 months and a year to see how we are doing. I am personally a supporter because of the lower power use and I hope they prove out, but I have been around long enough to see these kinds of things turn into a "flash" in the pan.
What did you mean about needing to experience them 'through a winter'... what difference would that make? Maybe I am missing something (like what winter even means, I mean Michigan, brrrrr) so help me out, what is your concern about LEDs in winter?
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#49
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Posted 22 September 2011 - 06:23 PM
Not much really. My aquarium sits near a window and gets some indirect light, so the shorter days have some impact on the overall light regime. I let this occur to some extent because I think (not know) that it helps the fish and plants a little. Things die back a little in the winter. The aquarium temp drops into the low 60's too (that is what winter means up here - my living room stays pretty cold unless I get the fire going), so that's another variable. I am just the cautious type, and want to see how things shake out over a longer period before I get too excited. As you can tell from my babbling, it was really a throw-away comment. I have no reason to doubt LED lighting.
I really am interested in your observations over a long period with these lights, and the experiment the fish manager is doing at my shop. I'll try to bump a thread once in a while to get some discussion.
I really am interested in your observations over a long period with these lights, and the experiment the fish manager is doing at my shop. I'll try to bump a thread once in a while to get some discussion.
#50
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Posted 23 September 2011 - 05:19 PM
Sorry it took me a while to get back after all of the replies. Had a lot going on, plus I had to be out doing that which I do to financially support my family and hobbies.
I've really enjoyed all of the discussion on lighting here and have learned a lot from it. Thanks to all who have contributed information and experiences. I'm probably going with fluorescent lighting at this time due to pricing as I'm somewhat unexpectedly doing an emergency tank set up for another tank that I'm putting some plants in also. A much simpler approach than the one I've been discussing here though. It's an emergency because I've got another tank that sprung a leak, so with buying lights and plants for both tanks I'll need to watch what I'm spending.
Speaking of lighting; Your reply about allelopathy has shed light on this in just the right spectrum to get it through to me. I see now that my premise is glowing with fallacious generalizations. I'm not sure though if I'm more impressed with the reply or how you structured it in a way that I can so easily understand it. I'm not always the brightest bulb ya know. OK, so getting beyond all of these light hearted puns, I really do appreciate this. It appears now that the best thing to do, is just do it, and see what happens. Thanks again Y'all.
Steve.
I've really enjoyed all of the discussion on lighting here and have learned a lot from it. Thanks to all who have contributed information and experiences. I'm probably going with fluorescent lighting at this time due to pricing as I'm somewhat unexpectedly doing an emergency tank set up for another tank that I'm putting some plants in also. A much simpler approach than the one I've been discussing here though. It's an emergency because I've got another tank that sprung a leak, so with buying lights and plants for both tanks I'll need to watch what I'm spending.
Actually, the Wooten and Elakovich article you gave implies that E. acicularis did not have an inhibitory effect on duckweed. It did on lettuce radicles (very young lettuce roots).
Allelopathy is a tricky thing to study. A lot of the studies on aquatic plants test for allelopathy on lettuce seedlings, which is sort of a hold-over from investigations for agriculture. In addition, it's easy to do in the lab. But these are innapropriate test subjects in my opinion, especially for plants that spread vegetatively. Preventing the growth of a seedling is a far different thing from inhibiting a mature specimen. For example, lawn "Weed & Feed" prevents germination by killing seedlings, but does not affect mature plants (at least appreciably). Studies that examine plants living together are confounded by other competitive factors. Really the only way to look at it is to use an extract of the plant investigated, and put it in the water of mature specimens. Even then, one needs to be cognizant of the concentration the test subject is exposed to. The lettuce seedlings and duckweed used in that article used up to 250 ppt of extract! Much higher than would be expected in a natural setting. Granted, an aquarium where the water wan't changed might have higher concentrations, but 250 ppt is really high.
Another thing to consider is that allelopathy might not really affect growth appreciably in your tank, but might just give the allelopathic plant a slight competitive advantage in certain environmental conditions in nature.
I've used E. acicularis in aquaria. Nice plant. It will likely grow into your stream, but so will any other plant that spreads. You'll have to weed it out occasionally.
Speaking of lighting; Your reply about allelopathy has shed light on this in just the right spectrum to get it through to me. I see now that my premise is glowing with fallacious generalizations. I'm not sure though if I'm more impressed with the reply or how you structured it in a way that I can so easily understand it. I'm not always the brightest bulb ya know. OK, so getting beyond all of these light hearted puns, I really do appreciate this. It appears now that the best thing to do, is just do it, and see what happens. Thanks again Y'all.
Steve.
#51
Guest_Yeahson421_*
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 04:57 PM
I saw that you posted about this tank being complete somewhere else, so now that it's done would you mind putting up some pictures?
#52
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 09:50 PM
I saw that you posted about this tank being complete somewhere else, so now that it's done would you mind putting up some pictures?
I can't wait to get some pictures of it, but right now I'm fighting green water. I had to use some water from a municipal water system for a water change instead of my normal water source and ended up with a lot of algae. Turns out that they add phosphate to the water. I ended up adding a HOB filter with some charcoal and it seems to be slowly clearing up. When it looks better I'll definitely get some pictures posted. Thanks for asking.
Steve.
#53
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 09:59 PM
Awesome! Can't wait! I'm working on a 75 of my own. I love being able to play around with a big tank again. I just got some pictures of the setup today if you would be interested: http://forum.nanfa.o...ream-tank-help/ (They're at the end)
#54
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 09:23 AM
I had to use some water from a municipal water system for a water change instead of my normal water source and ended up with a lot of algae. Turns out that they add phosphate to the water. I ended up adding a HOB filter with some charcoal and it seems to be slowly clearing up.
Phosphorus in tap water is such a pain! When I lived in GA I actually started using DI water because of it. I would see if you can find Phos-zorb, Phos-ban, or similar to add to the HOB instead of the charcoal. Or if you can get back to your normal water source, do a massive water change. Good luck!
#55
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 01:37 PM
Phosphorus in tap water is such a pain! When I lived in GA I actually started using DI water because of it. I would see if you can find Phos-zorb, Phos-ban, or similar to add to the HOB instead of the charcoal. Or if you can get back to your normal water source, do a massive water change. Good luck!
I'll definitely look into the Phos-zorb or similar products. The reason I went with the charcoal is because my two other tanks with plants and lights didn't seem to be affected. The only difference I could see is that they both have HOB filters with charcoal and the 75 gal. that experienced the algae has been running without any filtration except the plants. The problem I have with water is that my main water source is a cistern that I catch rainwater in. The rainwater is soft with a PH of 6 or lower. It obviously doesn't grow plants that well, so I add some limestone to the substrate and it seems to slowly bring the PH and hardness up in my tanks while the plants can still out compete most of the algae. If we go very long without rain, then I have to haul water from a municipal source. If I could just have one or the other all the time, I could deal with it easier, but the combination is tough. The hard water sure rocketed the plant growth for a few days too though.
We've had some more rain lately so the phosphorus in the water is more diluted and I've done a couple of water changes to dilute what was in the tank. So now that the water is about 75% better, I'm not sure just what helped. I'm not sure if it was the water changes with less phosphorus and lower PH, the addition of the filter with the charcoal, or just waiting for the plants to out compete the algae or maybe some combination of three? My best solution will probably be to just keep some Phos-sorb or Phos-ban around to put in the HOB filters for a while after I have to haul water. Thank you.
Steve.
Edited by frogwhacker, 27 November 2011 - 01:43 PM.
#56
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Posted 30 November 2011 - 12:50 PM
still following your updates, I just filled my 125 and have some crappy pieces of wood in it. Will not post any pictures until it is up to my standards. 
Just curious if you find it harder to work on tanks in the winter months than it is in the summer months. for some reason I feel less motivated to do it when it is cold outside and much more when it is warm. Just a question
Just curious if you find it harder to work on tanks in the winter months than it is in the summer months. for some reason I feel less motivated to do it when it is cold outside and much more when it is warm. Just a question
#57
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Posted 30 November 2011 - 03:33 PM
still following your updates, I just filled my 125 and have some crappy pieces of wood in it. Will not post any pictures until it is up to my standards.
Just curious if you find it harder to work on tanks in the winter months than it is in the summer months. for some reason I feel less motivated to do it when it is cold outside and much more when it is warm. Just a question
Looking back, I wish I would have taken some pictures during the set-up phase of my 75. I got a burst of ambition and didn't want to take the time for pic.s. I've been fighting what I believe is brown diatom from the start, and then the green water, now I've got some dark green stuff attached to rocks and plants that I need to photo for some I.D. I keep thinking that I don't want any pictures until it looks the way I want it to, but I'm not sure that will ever happen, so I may go ahead and get some tonight and post them. I also wish I would have taken some pictures of the plumbing before I covered it up with plants, but that was my whole idea. I also still don't have it stocked quite the way I want it, but this is the plant section so that shouldn't matter. I would encourage you to get pictures instead of making my mistake and waiting until it's practically done.
I think we often tend to get more motivated with our fish at home when we're also spending time in the water outside in their natural habitats. Although I'm still spending a couple of days a week in the water my plant collecting is pretty much over for this year, but I'm getting enough growth in my tanks that I don't have room for any more anyway.
All in all, so far I'm fairly happy with the way the tank has turned out though. Even though I've had problems with algae and my Ludwigia palustris shedding leaves, it's still the tank that visitors find the most interesting of the 7 tanks I have going right now. It often gets even more attention than the 14 inch smallmouth bass in the middle of my living room.
I'll try to post some pictures later tonight as the water has finally cleared to a point that I might be able to. Thanks for the comments, would definitely enjoy hearing more updates on your 125.
Steve.
#58
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Posted 30 November 2011 - 05:00 PM
Does it look like this?I've been fighting what I believe is brown diatom from the start, and then the green water, now I've got some dark green stuff attached to rocks and plants that I need to photo for some I.D.
http://gallery.nanfa...cteria.JPG.html
#59
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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:27 PM
Does it look like this?
http://gallery.nanfa...cteria.JPG.html
Ugh, Yes. Looks like I might have to try the hydrogen peroxide. Are there any plants or fish that won't be able to take a treatment of that? I've got elodea, Ludwigia palustris, Cabomba caroliniana, and Sagittaria subulata. My fish are several varieties of darters, some bigeye chubs and a small Lepomis that appears to be a young longear. It seems like I've seen some posts about having to use a syringe and apply the peroxide directly to the algae. Has anyone had success with that? Thanks.
Steve.
#60
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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:14 AM
Your cyanobacteria is probably not sustainable. Your newly set up tank is kind of like a teenager; it's going through some phases but it'll be a normal grown up tank in the end. Just as diatoms go away after they run out of silicate, the cyanobacteria will probably go away soon, too. Of course this person disagrees entirely with me. Link: http://www.tropicalf...bacteria-23633/Looks like I might have to try the hydrogen peroxide. ... It seems like I've seen some posts about having to use a syringe and apply the peroxide directly to the algae. Has anyone had success with that?
Apparently cyanobacteria are an issue if they coat your plants and block out all the light. *shrugs* Meh. I just leave mine alone. Perhaps I'm too nonchalant.
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