I can keep a male on nest continously for months on end. Assuming they are kept in good nutrtional status.
Relax. You are taking on something that requires experience best developed through a series of failures. You have already spent > 90% of what needs to be invested for materials and equipement. As for effort, consider what I suggested, make so daylight fish experience does not conflict with your work schedule. Then caring for fish with a little practice can be wittled down to minutes of the day.
Getting Bluegill to Breed
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, Jul 10 2012 03:57 AM
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#82
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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:10 AM
Quick update, larvae are starting to get big, all of the larvae which I observed to not have yellow bellies have disappeared. Ammonia is still reading 0.
Centrarchid how many larvae do you think it takes to fill a 1ftx1ftx1ft area in a 75gal tank? because i have no idea on how to figure out how many fish are presently in the tank. Im guessing that their are between 1000-2000 but still no idea really.
Centrarchid how many larvae do you think it takes to fill a 1ftx1ftx1ft area in a 75gal tank? because i have no idea on how to figure out how many fish are presently in the tank. Im guessing that their are between 1000-2000 but still no idea really.
#83
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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:49 AM
Estimating numbers, what it looks like times two to five plus or minus 10,000. I am notorius for not being able estimate the number of larvae unless true number less than 10. If you have 1000 you are doing good because immediately following weaning you are going to run into space limitations that will not allow the higher numbers to thrive later.
#84
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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:15 PM
Im thinking I lost quite a few larvae to starvation. This mainly due to them going off to the/unnoticed areas in the tank.
Additionally I discovered if I adjust the lighting to have only the center of the tank lit, with the other two sides dark, the fish will congregate there and swim in only the area which is lit, making it tremendously easier to get the brine shrimp to them, and hopefully cut down on their explorer tendencies.
Additionally I discovered if I adjust the lighting to have only the center of the tank lit, with the other two sides dark, the fish will congregate there and swim in only the area which is lit, making it tremendously easier to get the brine shrimp to them, and hopefully cut down on their explorer tendencies.
#85
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Posted 22 September 2012 - 04:53 PM
Update.
Well I figured out what was killing the brood, it was the filteration. It was just too powerfull and was sucking them up over night.
We are down to about 100-200 fish now.
Good news is that since i turned off the filtration the population has been very stable, I even recognize what they look like now.
They have grown quite a bit too.
Question for anyone who knows, how long do you think a 10-12 day old fish (counting the time from egg->hatch->swim up) can go without eating? Additionally when feeding them do they need to consume food for 8hrs a day and can go the rest of the time without eating? Or do they need to be fed over a period of time spread out the day so they do not go to long without eating?
At any rate we are working on building a brine shrimp drip system so we can drip brine shrimp into the tank , hopefully enough to get them through the day.
Well I figured out what was killing the brood, it was the filteration. It was just too powerfull and was sucking them up over night.
We are down to about 100-200 fish now.
Good news is that since i turned off the filtration the population has been very stable, I even recognize what they look like now.
They have grown quite a bit too.
Question for anyone who knows, how long do you think a 10-12 day old fish (counting the time from egg->hatch->swim up) can go without eating? Additionally when feeding them do they need to consume food for 8hrs a day and can go the rest of the time without eating? Or do they need to be fed over a period of time spread out the day so they do not go to long without eating?
At any rate we are working on building a brine shrimp drip system so we can drip brine shrimp into the tank , hopefully enough to get them through the day.
#86
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Posted 22 September 2012 - 05:24 PM
Skip feeding not advised as will promoting runts and cannibalism. Even bluegill can be cannibals when size disparity too great. Older fish more tolerant of longer intervals between feeding bouts but quantifying I am not able to do even though we explored it.
Based on lots of experience feed them 3x daily. 0700, 1800, and 2300. Not perfect but much better than 1x daily.
Drip method will require some engineering to ensure quality stream of BS applied to tank. Timer connected to solonoid valve I would prefer.
Based on lots of experience feed them 3x daily. 0700, 1800, and 2300. Not perfect but much better than 1x daily.
Drip method will require some engineering to ensure quality stream of BS applied to tank. Timer connected to solonoid valve I would prefer.
#87
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Posted 22 September 2012 - 05:46 PM
Somebody here was using a solenoid valve and timer for raising young sturgeon, and it seemed quite successful provided you're changing enough water to keep the salinity down. It seems unnecessarily difficult to try to set a drip rate correctly.
What makes you think the filtration was killing fish, rather than dead or dying fish getting caught in the intake as you always see at pet shops? How are you keeping the water clean now?
What makes you think the filtration was killing fish, rather than dead or dying fish getting caught in the intake as you always see at pet shops? How are you keeping the water clean now?
#88
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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:29 PM
im using voodoo to keep the water clean and just an air bubbeler, been running without filtration for 3 days 0 ammonia, changing out 5 gallons of water before i go to bed every night, no ammonia spikes or anything either. Im testing the brineshrimp to see how long they can live in freshwater since dealing with salinity levels with a drip seems to troubling, if they can push 5+hrs than it will be great.
You could be right that dead fish got put into the filtration, though i don't want to take the chance with this batch since i don't think I can do another spawning until spring (to much work). Additionally I found it odd that every day that i turned off the lights for bed and check about 1/3 of the brood would be missing it was very troubling. Without the filteration on I have not noticed any deaths though it could just be my mind playing tricks on me. I will have to test it again on a new brood with no filtration and see if the population is greater, but then their could be a whole host of other variables which must be taken into account as well.
You could be right that dead fish got put into the filtration, though i don't want to take the chance with this batch since i don't think I can do another spawning until spring (to much work). Additionally I found it odd that every day that i turned off the lights for bed and check about 1/3 of the brood would be missing it was very troubling. Without the filteration on I have not noticed any deaths though it could just be my mind playing tricks on me. I will have to test it again on a new brood with no filtration and see if the population is greater, but then their could be a whole host of other variables which must be taken into account as well.
#89
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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:03 PM
I never turn off all lights at night with fish confined indoors. Changes too fast and light levels get too low. Night light but make so strikes tank indirectly.
#90
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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:07 AM
Brine shrimp will definitely live more than 5 hours in fresh water.
#91
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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:12 AM
update: First day that I have not been with the fish, and additionally have left the caring for them to my father for I need to catch up with school. After leaving specific instructions, and explaining a feeding regime which he can do while working, I am proud and happy to announce that no problems occurred. Very soon my little fish will be two weeks old.
#92
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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:46 AM
You are not through woods yet. Most difficult time will be weeks three and four; especially if you have yet to wean them off brine shrimp.
#93
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Posted 25 September 2012 - 03:50 PM
What exactly occurs on weeks three and four?
#94
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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:13 PM
I am assuming you are still feeding brine shrimp to what are now fry / juveniles. Even though an aquafeed is being co-feed to same fish, many are still consuming only the brine shrimp. Once brine shrimp are removed, it takes about 7 to 10 days for non-feeders on aquafeed to effectively die of starvation. Animals in poor condition may also consume the aquafeed but their gut will not be able to handle it and those animals will be lost as well. We have two pulses of loss, one very early within a day or two following exodus because maternal female in poor condition and again between 21 and 28 days. The first pulse is easy to fix with better conditioning of females, the second takes practice and identifying a quality aquafeed that is applied with a good regimen. I am very concerned about your present aquafeed not beeing good enough.
#95
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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:24 AM
Add several large sponge filters asap, you could easily get serious ammonia spike,
Centrarchid is right on, we do this quite similarly I think,
I prefer to raise artemia myself in inverted five gallon water jugs, you can gut load the artemia to a much better nutrition level over shipped-in bring shrimp,
I silicon into the neck taps, put 3-5 inverted jugs in a rack with airstones, cut bottoms off the jugs, 3 jugs for artemia and two for greenwater, lights on the green water 24/7, feed the artemia prior to harvest , pull the air stone for a few mins and let the gut loaded ones settle into the neck then drawn off as much as wanted through the tap, after netting/straining return the water to the jug.
Centrarchid is right on, we do this quite similarly I think,
I prefer to raise artemia myself in inverted five gallon water jugs, you can gut load the artemia to a much better nutrition level over shipped-in bring shrimp,
I silicon into the neck taps, put 3-5 inverted jugs in a rack with airstones, cut bottoms off the jugs, 3 jugs for artemia and two for greenwater, lights on the green water 24/7, feed the artemia prior to harvest , pull the air stone for a few mins and let the gut loaded ones settle into the neck then drawn off as much as wanted through the tap, after netting/straining return the water to the jug.
Edited by JakeLevi, 26 September 2012 - 04:30 AM.
#96
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Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:38 PM
Diagram of current indoor RAS for breeding bluegill in colony setting. Works for other species as well.
#97
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Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:58 PM
Whole system.
Male side.
Female side.
Love cave; 10" diameter pipe in back.
Male side.
Female side.
Love cave; 10" diameter pipe in back.
#98
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 13 February 2014 - 03:19 PM
help me understand a bit (and sorry if this was already mentioned previously)... the 10" diameter pipe would let the males or the females through, right? But males being males, they stay and guard the nest and the females can get literally out of site when they need to... is that the dynamic?
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#99
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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:52 PM
Yes, males stay with nests and females can control proximity when pipe is open. Pipe is kept open from about 0800 till 1600 when someone is available to supervise. If we simply want a spawn, then no supervision, just check nest at end of day.
#100
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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:31 PM
Fish quickly learn that females can enter male side during morning through end of day. After chasing females back and at end of day for about a week, the females then learn to back into female side on their own when we come into shut breeding down for the day. Pipe is blocked on both sides by gate that slides back and forth. It is very interesting to see how quickly and how much the fish can learn. One of these days we need to setup a maze to see how complex of an environment they can learn.
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