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Warmouth have holes in head?

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#41 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 12:48 PM

Does he get any food with vegetables in it? Fat and skinny is different than malnourished or not. Fat sailors still get scurvy.

#42 Guest_Vandee_*

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 01:05 PM

unless there are vegetables in those pellets then no

#43 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 01:21 PM

Most feeds (pelleted) are supplemented with Vitamin C with assumption it is required. IF feed is improperly stored or improperly manufactured then the Vitamin C and other nutrients may be degraded.

#44 Guest_Vandee_*

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 01:29 PM

Yeah I checked the label and it has vitamin C.

#45 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 01:29 PM

It might not be a bad idea to buy a few different pellets. If the fish is eating pellets, you might as well take advantage of that and give it a variety of them with different ingredients. If this were a nutrient deficiency, one of the pellets might have whatever vitamin is missing.
I am reminded of the House episode where a lack of Vitamin K caused blood clot problems and nearly killed a woman. And as centrarchid mentioned, lack of Vitamin C causes improper collagen processing and scurvy. Maybe there is something required for hexamita immune response the fish needs but is not getting in its diet? Or a vitamin necessary for hole structure maintenance? Hmm.

#46 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 01:39 PM

There's some different scenarios here that could result.
1. You simply change nothing and observe the fish, comparing photos of it over time.
a) If it is hole in the head, it'll start to look more like that oscar I linked a photo to on the previous page. If you start seeing differences in one photo to the next (larger and more numerous holes from one month to the next), start treating for hole in the head. In that case, it's pretty easy to treat it. The fish shouldn't die. I showed a photo of a really awful oscar one month later, very much recovered.
b) If it's not hole in the head and you don't change your habits, then no big deal. Photos of the fish two months from now will look the same as photos of the fish now. Same number of holes, same size. No new holes, no bigger holes.
2. You start doing something like buying activated carbon to bind potential poison molecules or start more frequent water changes
a) If it's not hole in the head. In this instance the fish wouldn't have gotten worse anyway and now you're doing more work, forever, with the threat being that if you stop your fish will get sick (when it won't, in this situation). The photos will reveal no change in hole size or number from one month to the next. Six months from now the holes are still there and the same size.
b) If it is hole in the head, treatment would result in the fish not getting any worse and these holes in its face will close up. Comparing photos of the fish taken now and taken a month and two months from now will show you if there's a difference.

It's really up to you what you do.
I know what I personally would do. If I was already making 40% water changes every week, I'd buy a test kit and test my nitrate, expecting to see 10 to 30 ppm nitrate. Then upon seeing a low nitrate concentration, I wouldn't change anything. I'd compare photos of this warmouth to other warmouths and compare photos of this same warmouth to itself over time. I'd see if its holes in its head are bigger than other fish's or become bigger over time.

Here's a photo of a warmouth:
Posted Image

Is this stock photo of a sick warmouth? Is this a healthy warmouth? That is the question, and is why even if you do nothing, it's not a bad idea to compare photos of your own fish to itself now, one month from now, etc. If you do nothing else, you should make sure the holes in your fish's head stay the same number and the same size over time.

That warmouth has holes. The reason, or the origin? Maybe it is nothing and varies with populations. Or maybe this warmouth has the same syndrome?

#47 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 03:22 PM

Separate incurrent and excurrent nostrils (2 nostrils on each side) are normal for sunfish and many other families. The pair of larger shallow depressions higher up on the head between the eyes (are these supra-orbital pores?) look normal to me, covered with pigmented healthy skin. On Vandee's warmouth these depressions appears pale and enlarged, possibly from infection or other damage?

#48 littlen

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 12:20 PM

Gerald, I am in agreement with your assessment(s) in this topic.

I doubt you would want to try this treatment in your tank because of your plants. But if you have another tank you could move the fish in to, there is a good drug on the market called salt. Some swear by it. I would give it a try if you have the space to treat your fish elsewhere. Even a short bath in a bucket or 10 gallon might help. Certainly can't hurt it. That way you could do a higher concentration....say 10-15ppt for 10 minutes.
Nick L.

#49 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 12:29 PM

When doing salt dips, I have typically removed the fish when it falls on its side. Is this what others do?

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