83 replies to this topic

[Sean Phillips]

Dipnetting in vegetation. I think they are common in weedy lake Erie bays and marshes.

Then that won't be a problem. We dock our boat in Presque Isle Bay Marina for most of the year and it's like a clear march in our marina.

[Cu455]

What quarry is this? I dove Dutch Springs a few times they have a bunch of koi that are intresting to look at. I like the paddle fish and sturgeon idea. Yellow perch are cool. I will agree with stocking the quarry first with fish lower on the food web. If the quarry is a decent size they will find spots to hide and reproduce.

I don't know to much about amphibians but I see a bunch of newts and/or salamanders at my parents place in the Poconos. Snapping turtles will make an intresting addition.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Apparently they are easier to come by in spring and early summer. Probably before the weed beds get filled up with juvenile sunfish that gobble them up.

[Matt DeLaVega]

What quarry is this? I dove Dutch Springs a few times they have a bunch of koi that are intresting to look at. I like the paddle fish and sturgeon idea. Yellow perch are cool. I will agree with stocking the quarry first with fish lower on the food web. If the quarry is a decent size they will find spots to hide and reproduce.

I don't know to much about amphibians but I see a bunch of newts and/or salamanders at my parents place in the Poconos. Snapping turtles will make an intresting addition.

Had not thought of turtles, but softshell turtles would be fun to dive with. A bit quicker and more graceful than most other freshwater turtles. Though I am sure any brand of turtle would be neat.

 

 Have you thought of bowfin. I would really consider that if they are legal.

[Sean Phillips]

What quarry is this? I dove Dutch Springs a few times they have a bunch of koi that are intresting to look at. I like the paddle fish and sturgeon idea. Yellow perch are cool. I will agree with stocking the quarry first with fish lower on the food web. If the quarry is a decent size they will find spots to hide and reproduce.

I don't know to much about amphibians but I see a bunch of newts and/or salamanders at my parents place in the Poconos. Snapping turtles will make an intresting addition.

Strawberry Quarry, it's a gated private place so you have to own the owner to get in but he's a pretty sociable guy so a lot of people probably have the code.

[Sean Phillips]

Had not thought of turtles, but softshell turtles would be fun to dive with. A bit quicker and more graceful than most other freshwater turtles. Though I am sure any brand of turtle would be neat.
 
 Have you thought of bowfin. I would really consider that if they are legal.

There's some kind of turtles there now, either painted or box I think. They're cool little guys, they occasionally follow divers around and watch for things we kick up. Bowfin are a candidate species in PA because they're only present in three or four bodies of water state wide. But, it is legal to keep/own/transport/stock candidate species so I might hit Geneva Marsh and try to get some for the quarry.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Trout usually will not survive in a pond that gets warmer than 70 degrees within 8 feet of the surface. They are not likely to make it, and brook trout are the least likely of the bunch. I would not waste resources on them.

 

I would certainly do walleye.

 

Keep in mind that clarity in quarries comes in part from lack of fertility. So this body of water is going to have some limits to the amount of fish that it will support without supplemental feeding.

 

The first thing I would do is join this forum. http://forums.pondboss.com/

 

The second would be to work on the grass shrimp, and maybe take up a collection, and buy 30+ pounds of golden shiners. More would be better.

[Sean Phillips]

Trout usually will not survive in a pond that gets warmer than 70 degrees within 8 feet of the surface. They are not likely to make it, and brook trout are the least likely of the bunch. I would not waste resources on them.
 
I would certainly do walleye.
 
Keep in mind that clarity in quarries comes in part from lack of fertility. So this body of water is going to have some limits to the amount of fish that it will support without supplemental feeding.
 
The first thing I would do is join this forum. http://forums.pondboss.com/
 
The second would be to work on the grass shrimp, and maybe take up a collection, and buy 30+ pounds of golden shiners. More would be better.

Do remember, the bottom of the quarry is 20-33 feet depending on the area and the water there average 54-64 in the summer, so I have a hunch trout would survive at that depth over the warmer months and move shallower as the water warms. And while the water certainly is clearer than the average lake, there are tons of macro and micro inverts. More than I can count actually, some of them look like small jellyfish and are about 1/4" in diameter.

[Sean Phillips]

Are there any forage fish I could stock that would allow me to stock darters and shiners at the same time as predators to keep the predators' feeding attention on the forage fish and off the darters and minnows until they start reproducing. I mentioned gizzard shad before and I'm sure the LMBs would love to snack on them. Just not sure how they do in private lakes.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Temps below 8 feet are not the problem with trout, it is the amount of dissolved oxygen. Sure it is cool enough down there but the O2 is not necessarily high enough. It may be, but I highly doubt it. As far as the invertebrates go, that sounds great, but as far as a pond managed for fish production and numbers, you are looking for an algae bloom that cuts the depth clarity to about two feet. This feeds the food chain. Many people use fertilizers in their ponds to set this in motion. Obviously not going to work in a quarry that people plan to dive in. In your case fertility will be somewhat of a deciding factor in how many fish this body of water can support. It will support plenty of fish, and I am sure you will be happy with the outcome, but I would spend a good deal of time learning about pond management so that you put your money, and or your effort in the right place. Choose your fish species wisely, and don't waste time or space on those that won't work. For instance, I can imagine that if you stocked a lot of channel catfish, that as they grew you would eventually end up with a bunch of emaciated catfish, as they are not a very efficient predator, and are more of a scavenger/opportunistic feeder. What in this quarry is going to keep a bunch of 24 inch channel catfish fat and sassy? So it would be wise to tailor the numbers to what it can support. Spend a lot of time on the Pond Boss forum. I wish I had spent more time there before I stocked my pond, and had to try to remedy my mistakes.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Are there any forage fish I could stock that would allow me to stock darters and shiners at the same time as predators to keep the predators' feeding attention on the forage fish and off the darters and minnows until they start reproducing. I mentioned gizzard shad before and I'm sure the LMBs would love to snack on them. Just not sure how they do in private lakes.

You can purchase fathead minnows, and golden shiners by the pound. Fatheads from the hatchery are pretty clumsy and stupid. They would certainly take the pressure off of the other species to an extent. Still your best bet is to establish your smaller fishes first before adding any additional predators. With the current predators alone, you will be fighting an uphill battle to establish these other species. Also many will have to be collected by you, so it is not like you will be adding a thousand johnny darters or spotfin shiners at once. In my opinion this is a 5- 10 year project to really be able to see all of the fruits of your labor. If you try to make this happen in a year or two, it will be like trying to teach a pig to fly. It wastes your time and irritates the pig.

[Mike]

I would not put Flathead Catfish in a small body of water; everything I ever read said you will end up with a few giant Flathead catfish and almost nothing else. Also I would not stock Gizzard Shad or White Perch because of overpopulating problems. I would also not use Fathead Minnows because they are so boring. Also Brian Zimmerman said he would not use them. You can get other minnows from the venders on NANFA, 

 

 

 

Brian at    zimmermansfish.com 

 

 

Brian at    www.btdarters.com

 

 

Mark at    jonahsaquarium.com   also has Wholesale quantities available

[Matt DeLaVega]

I differ, I would stock fatheads, they will probably all get eaten eventually, since they just suck. So not likely to persist. They are readily available. They are not going to escape. They are simply a stop gap measure to lighten the load on the fish you want. They are not nearly as good at evading predation as the fish you want, so they will be eaten first, again because they suck. And why worry about whether they are interesting or not? They will pretty much all die. Even if Brian said he would not use them, he may agree with them as a stop gap. 20 pounds of them is going to run $180. You could spend $180 in fuel chasing down 20 pounds of spotfin shiners. I would not hesitate to use them. I dump 5 pounds in my pond spring and fall along with 5 pounds of golden shiners. The golden shiners actually persist and spawn, but the fatheads are just food. So in order to take the pressure off of the good fish that you want to stock, I would put in both golden shiners and fatheads. I would opt for bluntnose minnows if they were available commercially, but even as common as they are I cannot justify running around and trying to net up 5 pounds of bluntnose, when I can buy fatheads for $55. Now if I am out netting for fun, then sure, I will bring whatever minnows I catch locally that are abundant home for forage. Though they never spawned, and I did not expect them to, N. rubellus persisted for quite a while in my pond. They seemed to be very adept at avoiding predation.

 

  Rosy reds are the same price, and would probably be gobbled up even more efficiently.

 

 I do however have 2 hatcheries within a half hour drive, so that tips the scales a bit.

 

https://www.jonesfish.com/catalog/2

 

https://www.atac.cc/...h-stocking.html

 

I would also be afraid of the shad, and as far as the flathead go, maybe one or two. Might be fun to dive and play hide and seek with a couple. I would not go with too many even though you have 20 acres. If they did pull off a spawn, you would have one heck of a time correcting it. Well, spear fishing might do it.

 

  I think this can really be a fun project, and you could make this a great place for angling as well as diving. With enough research, and maybe some financial help from the other club members you could do alright. The paddlefish thing I mentioned earlier would potentially bring in some money down the road, which might help offset the costs. The best place to research their legality would be through whoever regulates aquaculture in your state.

[Sean Phillips]

I differ, I would stock fatheads, they will probably all get eaten eventually, since they just suck. So not likely to persist. They are readily available. They are not going to escape. They are simply a stop gap measure to lighten the load on the fish you want. They are not nearly as good at evading predation as the fish you want, so they will be eaten first, again because they suck. And why worry about whether they are interesting or not? They will pretty much all die. Even if Brian said he would not use them, he may agree with them as a stop gap. 20 pounds of them is going to run $180. You could spend $180 in fuel chasing down 20 pounds of spotfin shiners. I would not hesitate to use them. I dump 5 pounds in my pond spring and fall along with 5 pounds of golden shiners. The golden shiners actually persist and spawn, but the fatheads are just food. So in order to take the pressure off of the good fish that you want to stock, I would put in both golden shiners and fatheads. I would opt for bluntnose minnows if they were available commercially, but even as common as they are I cannot justify running around and trying to net up 5 pounds of bluntnose, when I can buy fatheads for $55. Now if I am out netting for fun, then sure, I will bring whatever minnows I catch locally that are abundant home for forage. Though they never spawned, and I did not expect them to, N. rubellus persisted for quite a while in my pond. They seemed to be very adept at avoiding predation.
 
  Rosy reds are the same price, and would probably be gobbled up even more efficiently.
 
 I do however have 2 hatcheries within a half hour drive, so that tips the scales a bit.
 
https://www.jonesfish.com/catalog/2
 
https://www.atac.cc/...h-stocking.html
 
I would also be afraid of the shad, and as far as the flathead go, maybe one or two. Might be fun to dive and play hide and seek with a couple. I would not go with too many even though you have 20 acres. If they did pull off a spawn, you would have one heck of a time correcting it. Well, spear fishing might do it.
 
  I think this can really be a fun project, and you could make this a great place for angling as well as diving. With enough research, and maybe some financial help from the other club members you could do alright. The paddlefish thing I mentioned earlier would potentially bring in some money down the road, which might help offset the costs. The best place to research their legality would be through whoever regulates aquaculture in your state.

Maybe I'll try to get some fatheads as well then. First things first though, if I'll be ordering from a hatchery, I'm going to have to talk to the club about funding.

[Mike]

Rosy Reds would be far less boring, and they would be nice to see while diving.

A quarry by me has paddlefish and a lot of people dive it. It is always exciting to see them, and they will help keep the water clear.

[centrarchid]

Also consider some aquatic plants native to your area.  Many do not disperse well but could  provide limitiing habitat some of the species being considered for introduction might benefit from, especially during early life stages.  Sometimes spadderdock and lotus can have their place as can water willow.

[Sean Phillips]

Not that it matters much, but I do have a picture of the quarry in case anyone was wondering what it looks like.  image.jpg   230.66KB   0 downloads  image.jpg   123.21KB   0 downloads

The little cuts in you see in the western shore are fairly shallow (6"-5') and extremely vegetated which will be ideal for smaller species. The overall western shore is full of a lot of vegetation as well. The eastern shore still has a decent amount of plants but not as many because it drops off to deeper water faster, making less light available on that side. The southern ranch of the quarry is probably the shallowest area (we group the quarry into three areas: number 1 (southern part), number 2 (central part), and number 3 (northern part). And I'd say one is the shallowest and most weeded, two is the neutral, and three is the deepest and least vegetated (though two and three as I've said still have plenty of plants present, the whole place is like an underwater forest). Two is the most popular dive site with the occasional dive at three, we almost never dive one for some reason. The "outsiders" (local rednecks and Amish) oddly enough show up at different parts of the quarry. The "locals" normally fish between two and three on the western shore and the Amish tend to fish in there boats very close to the eastern shore of area 2. Divers can only access the western side of the quarry because that's the only way to haul gear in with vehicles.

[Sean Phillips]

Here are some videos from this quarry from last year, not sure why I didn't post them sooner, to give you guys an idea of what it looks like underwater.

First one is bluegills nesting along the western shore of area 2.


This one is Largemouth in all different parts of the quarry.


And, more Largemouth, again, all over the place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIVmDgKjLy4&list=PLWwp02gHBcuSRD7HYOSKwFwttWYfUvL22&index=5

[Sean Phillips]

Does anyone know if any of these species would go well in a quarry like this without clouding visibility?
-White Sucker
-(Any local) Redhorse species
-Smallmouth Buffalo

And I know it isn't native but what about Common Carp and/or Koi, would they stir up the water badly too?

[Mike]

Carp including Koi (colored common carp) would stir up the bottom.